Does book of Job come from Egyptian book of the dead?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Riley259
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Riley259

Guest
A very liberal friend of mine (Unitarian Universalist) is studying scripture and claims that the book of Job was taken (stolen) from an Egyptian book of the dead. I realize that given the fact that he’s a UU, he’s probably has an incentive to debunk the Bible as total myth but does anyone know if his assertion has any credence at all?
 
First off, ask him to show you where it is in the Book of the Dead. I presume he’s never actually read the BoD, but picked up that info on some wacky website.
Secondly, Job is a story with a really basic plot; it asks the question of why good people suffer. The story itself is considerably old in terms of dating the Hebrew Bible, and it was probably told in ancient Israel over generations, most likely in different versions.
The closest parallel I could find was in a work called the “babylonian theodicy,” in which an innocent sufferer protests his anguish to the gods; they never respond, of course. In Job, God does respond. But anyways, that “suffering good-guy” theme is the only parallel, and it’s a pretty universal one at that. Conversely, Job as a unity is totally unique among Ancient Near East literature.
But, in regards to, “it’s really from the Book of the Dead,” your friend should give this lost peice of holy writings to the egyptologists immediately, because I’m sure they’d like to know about it.
 
Many very similar forms of many Biblical stories predate the Bible, sometimes by millenia. This is fact. What you choose to make of that fact is where personal beleif comes into play. Just because it isn’t the first time a tale is told, or it isn’t the first person telling it, doesn’t have to make it less effective.
 
40.png
Riley259:
A very liberal friend of mine (Unitarian Universalist) is studying scripture and claims that the book of Job was taken (stolen) from an Egyptian book of the dead. I realize that given the fact that he’s a UU, he’s probably has an incentive to debunk the Bible as total myth but does anyone know if his assertion has any credence at all?
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that Job was in Egypt for a period of time. So I think it is possible that some version of his story could have gotten into their hands.

I wouldn’t trust anything from them, though.

hurst
 
40.png
hurst:
It is my understanding that Job was in Egypt for a period of time. So I think it is possible that some version of his story could have gotten into their hands.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t Job written as a fictional allegory?

Josh
 
40.png
threej_lc:
Wasn’t Job written as a fictional allegory?
Click to expand...
No. And neither was Tobias.

The fact that they are also anagogical or allegorical does not take away from the fact that they actually happened.

That is what is so amazing about God. He can tell a story by making something really happen. Did He not do that with Jonah when He caused a vine to grow and then wither? Did He not also do that with Hosea when He told him to marry a harlot and name his children “Not my people” etc.? There are more examples of this kind of thing.

God is the Lord of History.

hurst
 
If Job is a copy of some other literature, then whoever is claiming such can produce said literature. I know I would enjoy reading it, just to compare. I have a book of the dead on my shelf, and Job is not in it.
 
40.png
Liberalsaved:
Well, that’s just silly, but I suppose I’ll ask: why?
Click to expand...
Are you saying you would believe them? Those who relied on powers of darkness, who worshiped creatures and devils, who practiced black magic, and who apparently wanted to be viewed as the most ancient of civilizations?

hurst
 
40.png
hurst:
Are you saying you would believe them? Those who relied on powers of darkness, who worshiped creatures and devils, who practiced black magic, and who apparently wanted to be viewed as the most ancient of civilizations?

hurst
Click to expand...
So because their religious beleifs disagree with yours, there is nothing to learn from them? I’m sorry, but that’s not even a valid point. It’s just incorrect.
 
40.png
Liberalsaved:
40.png
hurst:
Are you saying you would believe them? Those who relied on powers of darkness, who worshiped creatures and devils, who practiced black magic, and who apparently wanted to be viewed as the most ancient of civilizations?
Click to expand...
So because their religious beleifs disagree with yours, there is nothing to learn from them? I’m sorry, but that’s not even a valid point. It’s just incorrect.
Click to expand...
🙂

So just because my belief disagrees with yours, there is nothing to learn from it?

There is certainly something to learn from them and their practices: not to trust them.

hurst
 
hurst said:
🙂

So just because my belief disagrees with yours, there is nothing to learn from it?

There is certainly something to learn from them and their practices: not to trust them.

hurst
Click to expand...

That doesn’t even register, man. Why don’t you go to the library and check up on what the Egyptians did for us? You’d find a lot. You’d also learn they had no central religion, and that they didn’t “worship the devil”. You’d read about the first recorded (failed, admittedly) attempt at monotheism, and the way in which their sense of city planning still influences architects today.

Of course, you probably don’t even want to know, because they didn’t worship the same things as you.
 
40.png
Liberalsaved:
Of course, you probably don’t even want to know, because they didn’t worship the same things as you.
Click to expand...
You again try to pin this on that they “didn’t worship the same things”, when I focused on the fact they did not worship the true God.

If I worshiped trees and they worshiped the sun, and I said I wouldn’t follow their ways because they didn’t worship what I worshiped, then you might have a point about allowing equal diversity.

But this is a totally different issue. Any group, whether egyptians or otherwise, who do not worship the One God in truth, cannot be trusted to lead us to the truth, regardless of the natural wonders they produce. The gods of the pagans are devils (DRV Psalm 95:5). Instead, they lead us away from our God and subject us to His wrath.

Deut 32:16 They provoked him by strange gods, and stirred him up to anger, with their abominations. 17 They sacrificed to devils and not to God: to gods whom they knew not: that were newly come up, whom their fathers worshipped not.

Meanwhile, back to the issue of Job… if they do have a story of Job, and I would not doubt that they might (though we now know it is not in the “book of the dead”), I would not trust it to be accurate.

hurst
 
I guess I fall back on some teaching of the Catholic Church in this regard, that scripture is public divine relelation. It contains all we need for salvation. Now, I’m not asserting a ‘sola scriptura’ position here, and neither does the Church.

It’s just the simple point that we aren’t going to find essential works laying around someplace else.

Or perhaps stated another way, the Church has defined which writings are inspired.

Perhaps other writings can give some background or insight into the Bible, but they do not replace it.

A related subject is whether Genesis is a face-lifted hodge-podge of other Egyptian and/or Mesopotamian creation myths. The image of eating from a tree of life and living forever comes very directly out of one of those stories. And there are other parallels.

Even when the similarity is very strong, perhaps it doesn’t really say anything more than the writer(s) of Genesis (or Job) used an account familiar to the original audience, without necessarily incorporating that foreign spirituality, to the deteriment of its own message.

In the parables, Jesus expounded heavenly themes in graphic familiar imagery. The kingdom of heaven is LIKE a man who finds a treasure buried in a field, who goes to sell all he owns to buy that field. Maybe that was a story that was already familiar to His listeners, who wouldn’t be distracted by the treasure part too much.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top