Does forgiveness have to come from the heart?

[IwishIknew]

Apologies in advance for this is a spin off from another thread - but I thought it might be better served in this forum and with a differing opening question.

As a parental test of the imagination, I imagine myself in one of the most horrific situations I can think of: that of the mother of the Maccabees:

“The king fell into a rage, and gave orders that pans and caldrons be heated. 4 These were heated immediately, and he commanded that the tongue of their spokesman be cut out and that they scalp him and cut off his hands and feet, while the rest of the brothers and the mother looked on. 5 When he was utterly helpless, the king[a] ordered them to take him to the fire, still breathing, and to fry him in a pan.” 2 Maccabees 7

Now after this, each brother was likewise treated and put to death in front of the mother. Then the mother died (not sure if killed). So there was literally no time to have loving feelings for this horrific oppressor.

As a parent in such a moment - it would be a miracle if I could get myself to utter the prayer “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” as I saw my children each being dismembered and burned alive. To love my enemy from my heart at such a moment would be next to impossible. Knowing that Christ teaches to forgive all trespasses before one’s death, would be an ultimate challenge with only a short time before my death to follow. This situation would put me in a very difficult corner regarding forgiveness if I were required to forgive from my heart before my death!

So in light of that - could we say that the requirement for forgiveness of trespassers is more like a** willfully **signed contract (via an articulated prayer such as “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” ) rather than a heartfelt signed contract (via a warm, loving prayer as one would pray for a dear, sick child) for the evil-doer?

Can we say that forgiveness is simply a request that our enemies not be punished and that they may become better people? And that warm, loving feelings are not required?

Thoughts?

 

[ChibiViolet]

Of course “warm, loving feelings” are not required in order to forgive someone. We should pray for those who have wronged us though and not wish for them to die and or suffer, especially not wishing for them to go to Hell.

 

[Richard_White]

The Lord God knows what is in our hearts and minds and knows that we are but weak and frail human beings. Something that I always like to think of when it comes to these things is that, although we should try to attain a certain level of perfection with out mental prayer and such, God does not engage in business deals with us, and so therefore He, Out Merciful Lord and Father, will obviously give us some leeway and He obviously knows exactly what we mean and feel at any given moment, even when we ourselves donor k ow what we are saying or start to kind of babble.

May God bless you abundantly this Easter season and always!

 

[Polycarp1]

Forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling. It is an act of bending your will to God’s. A warm feeling may not be possible at the time because the wounds are too fresh. God will take your act of forgiveness and perfect it over time. We forgive because that is what God commands even if we have to do it through clenched teeth at first.

 

[JerryZ]

Forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling. It is an act of bending your will to God’s. A warm feeling may not be possible at the time because the wounds are too fresh. God will take your act of forgiveness and perfect it over time. We forgive because that is what God commands even if we have to do it through clenched teeth at first.

An act of the will. You decide to NOT keep a grudge and forget the wrongdoing. It IS hard but with the help of GOD’s grace it is possible.
Also some people seem to have a harder disposition to forgive than other. Just a personal observation. I might be wrong on that.

---

 

[ChibiViolet]

An act of the will. You decide to NOT keep a grudge and forget the wrongdoing. It IS hard but with the help of GOD’s grace it is possible.
Also some people seem to have a harder disposition to forgive than other. Just a personal observation. I might be wrong on that.

---

You don’t have to forget the wrongdoing, although it should not be dwelt upon for too long, especially if you cannot help but feel angry at the person every time you think about it. The best you might be able to not think about it, but when you do, to pray for the person who wronged you.

 

[IwishIknew]

You don’t have to forget the wrongdoing, although it should not be dwelt upon for too long, especially if you cannot help but feel angry at the person every time you think about it. The best you might be able to not think about it, but when you do, to pray for the person who wronged you.

This is sage advice, thank you.

Sometimes, God can allow a situation that is so horrific such as repeated sexual molestations by a trusted family member or a religious teacher of my/your own child.

In such extreme situations, I doubt there can ever be a warm-hearted forgiving feeling of “let’s hug and make up” in any prayer for the person who wronged my/your own child.

However, by sheer will power, one might be able to utter the words: “Father, forgive him for he knew not what he did.” And I’m thinking that is as far as God would call us believers who cannot see/feel/know from an eternal heavenly perspective.

So forgiveness from the heart might not ever be required in this lifetime of ours. An articulated prayer of forgiveness should be enough.

Does anyone think that such forgiveness from the heart is required in this type of rare (but sadly still too common) situation?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I believe that it would be saintly to have forgiveness come from the heart.

 

[IwishIknew]

I believe that it would be saintly to have forgiveness come from the heart.

But the question is would it be **saintly **for a parent of a repeatedly sexually molested child from a trusted religious teacher (or in the case of the Maccabees a child that is dismembered and then fried to death in a pan) to simply articulate (via prayer, verbally or writing) forgiveness for the evil doer? Would God view that as saintly?

 

[Polycarp1]

But the question is would it be **saintly **for a parent of a repeatedly sexually molested child from a trusted religious teacher (or in the case of the Maccabees a child that is dismembered and then fried to death in a pan) to simply articulate (via prayer, verbally or writing) forgiveness for the evil doer? Would God view that as saintly?

It would be Gods will that they forgive. But that doesn’t mean that they have to be in favor of foregoing justice for the offender. If you break my window I’ll forgive you but I still want you to fix my window. In confession God forgives our sins but we still have to make atonement for them.

 

[tweedlealice]

Corey Ten Boom and her sister Betty were in concentration camps. One guard was responsible for Betty’s death. Corey was released accidentally on a paper snafu.God was there for both sisters but one lived and preached His glory post was and one was with God in heaven.
Corey’s sermon was on the greatness of God’s love and forgiveness. After the sermon, a retired German vet came up. He asked if she remembered him. She did not. He reminded her that he was the guard the helped w Betsy’s death. Well, Corey stated she felt all the anger adn hatred in her flesh. She was praying to God how could she live what she preached and bellieved? She heard God say w the love I will give you for him. She felt this warmth of grace and love come down through her and she could hug him and forgive him.“I LOVE YOU W THE LOVE OF THE LORD.” The soldier fell on his knees and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
I sat across the table in a restaurant for one of my husbands GIRL FRIENDS. She told me she had loved him. I shouldn’t go on this aglow retreat I was going on. She said there was something special about me. My husband was taking up w some one else. God told me “Let the dead bury the dead” I was to go on the retreat. He put me in a room w a church secretary who had an affair w the Pastor and the Pastor’s wife was next store and they were friends and forgiven. THAT IS HOW GOD WORKS. While I was talking w this person at the restaurant I felt that warmth grace descend on my head and go through my body like warm honey. I had this love to give her and told her she was forgiven and God loved her and He would like her to start a journey w him. She died 5 years later at 55yo?? I don’t know what state her soul was in but that grace when God gives it to you is overwhelming. Thank you Jesus. The retreat was great. Eventually, my marriage was healed. Halleluhah

Yes, forgiveness first comes from the head and after much prayer, the heart will follow. You have to let the bitterness go.
in Christs love
tweedlealice

 

[tweedlealice]

Corey Ten Boom and her sister Betsy were in concentration camps. One guard was responsible for Betsy’s death. Corey was released accidentally on a paper snafu.God was there for both sisters but one lived and preached His glory post departure and one was with God in heaven.
Corey’s sermon was on the greatness of God’s love and forgiveness. After the sermon, a retired German vet came up. He asked if she remembered him. She did not. He reminded her that he was the guard the helped w Betsy’s death. Well, Corey stated she felt all the anger an hatred in her flesh. She was praying to God how could she live what she preached and believed? She heard God say," w the love I will give you for him." She felt this warmth of grace and love come down through her and she could hug him and forgive him.“I LOVE YOU W THE LOVE OF THE LORD.” The soldier fell on his knees and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
I sat across the table in a restaurant for one of my husbands GIRL FRIENDS. She told me she had loved him. I shouldn’t go on this aglow retreat I was going on. She said there was something special about me. My husband was taking up w some one else. God told me “Let the dead bury the dead” I was to go on the retreat. He put me in a room w a church secretary who had an affair w the Pastor and the Pastor’s wife was next room and they were friends and forgiven. THAT IS HOW GOD WORKS. While I was talking w this person at the restaurant I felt that warm grace descend on my head and go through my body like warm honey. I had this love to give her and told her she was forgiven and God loved her and He would like her to start a journey w him. She died 5 years later at 55yo?? I don’t know what state her soul was in but that grace when God gives it to you is overwhelming. Thank you Jesus. The retreat was great. Eventually, my marriage was healed. Halleluhah

Yes, forgiveness first comes from the head and after much prayer, the heart will follow. You have to let the bitterness go.
in Christs love
tweedlealice

 

[tweedlealice]

Corey Ten Boom and her sister Betsy were in concentration camps. One guard was responsible for Betsy’s death. Corey was released accidentally on a paper snafu.God was there for both sisters but one lived and preached His glory post departure and one was with God in heaven.
Corey’s sermon was on the greatness of God’s love and forgiveness. After the sermon, a retired German vet came up. He asked if she remembered him. She did not. He reminded her that he was the guard the helped w Betsy’s death. Well, Corey stated she felt all the anger an hatred in her flesh. She was praying to God how could she live what she preached and believed? She heard God say," w the love I will give you for him." She felt this warmth of grace and love come down through her and she could hug him and forgive him.“I LOVE YOU W THE LOVE OF THE LORD.” The soldier fell on his knees and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
I sat across the table in a restaurant for one of my husbands GIRL FRIENDS. She told me she had loved him. I shouldn’t go on this aglow retreat I was going on. She said there was something special about me. My husband was taking up w some one else. God told me “Let the dead bury the dead” I was to go on the retreat. He put me in a room w a church secretary who had an affair w the Pastor and the Pastor’s wife was next room and they were friends and forgiven. THAT IS HOW GOD WORKS. While I was talking w this person at the restaurant I felt that warm grace descend on my head and go through my body like warm honey. I had this love to give her and told her she was forgiven and God loved her and He would like her to start a journey w him. She died 5 years later at 55yo?? I don’t know what state her soul was in but that grace when God gives it to you is overwhelming. Thank you Jesus. The retreat was great. Eventually, my marriage was healed. Halleluhah

Yes, forgiveness first comes from the head and after much prayer, the heart will follow. You have to let the bitterness go.
in Christs love
tweedlealice

 

[tweedlealice]

Corey Ten Boom and her sister Betty were in concentration camps. One guard was responsible for Betty’s death. Corey was released accidentally on a paper snafu.God was there for both sisters but one lived and preached His glory post was and one was with God in heaven.
Corey’s sermon was on the greatness of God’s love and forgiveness. After the sermon, a retired German vet came up. He asked if she remembered him. She did not. He reminded her that he was the guard the helped w Betsy’s death. Well, Corey stated she felt all the anger adn hatred in her flesh. She was praying to God how could she live what she preached and bellieved? She heard God say w the love I will give you for him. She felt this warmth of grace and love come down through her and she could hug him and forgive him.“I LOVE YOU W THE LOVE OF THE LORD.” The soldier fell on his knees and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
I sat across the table in a restaurant for one of my husbands GIRL FRIENDS. She told me she had loved him. I shouldn’t go on this aglow retreat I was going on. She said there was something special about me. My husband was taking up w some one else. God told me “Let the dead bury the dead” I was to go on the retreat. He put me in a room w a church secretary who had an affair w the Pastor and the Pastor’s wife was next store and they were friends and forgiven. THAT IS HOW GOD WORKS. While I was talking w this person at the restaurant I felt that warmth grace descend on my head and go through my body like warm honey. I had this love to give her and told her she was forgiven and God loved her and He would like her to start a journey w him. She died 5 years later at 55yo?? I don’t know what state her soul was in but that grace when God gives it to you is overwhelming. Thank you Jesus. The retreat was great. Eventually, my marriage was healed. Halleluhah

Yes, forgiveness first comes from the head and after much prayer, the heart will follow. You have to let the bitterness go.
in Christs love
tweedlealice

I HAD TYPO ERRORS HERE AND CORRECTED THEM. I CAN’T FIND A DELETE BUTTON. FOR SOME REASON I HAVE 3 OF THESE. 2 ARE CORRECTED.

 

[Bill_Martin]

One of the best tricks of the devil is to get us to think that we first need a specific feeling to forgive or ask forgiveness. Forgiveness isn’t a feeling. Feelings are out of our control. We can (and should) forgive even when we don’t feel positively towards the other person, and likewise we should ask forgiveness even when we don’t feel sorry or remorseful.

 

[tweedlealice]

Depending on the severity of the injuries will define the ability to bring forth the forgiveness. The torture of the children of the Maccabees.–I don’t know if I would be alive for me to get the forgiveness in. The Mom was the last to die after seeing all her children suffer. Yet, She told her sons to not deny Adonai, their God and Savior. They went forward w dignity. I keep wanting to take so
meone down w me. Like I will not put on an orange outfit. I will not kneel down. I will knock them down and run in circles Praising Jesus and calling down angels. They will have to shoot me before I am stiil enough to be beheaded. If I get a weapon, someone is going to bleed. It is not even to save my life but the other ones behind me. Now, I am in America. I am an orthopedic cripple 67yo. So none of that is possible but anger is where I am at w Syria and Iraq. Forgiveness is not there yet. But I am a sinner saved by grace and I don’t feel hate. just justifiable anger and the need to pray.

BENEATH THE CROSS OF THE CRUCIFIED KING/ POPE JOHN PAUL II

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved it is the power of God. We proclaim Christ crucified. Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom,and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

and behold, we are standing beneath the cross of the age, wish through Your cross and passion, O Christ, to cry out today that mercy which has irreversibly entered in to the history of man, into our whole human history-and which in spite of the appearnces of weakness is stronger than evil. It is the greatest power and force upon which man can sustain himself, threatened as he is from so many sides…Holy is God. Holy and strong. Holy immortal one, have mercy on us. Have mercy eleison. miserere
May the power of Your love once more be shown to be greater than the evil that threatens it. May it be shown to be greater than sin. May the power of Your cross, O Christ, be shown to be greater than the author of sin, who is called the “the prince of the world”
For by your blood and Your passion, You have redeemed the world.

AND THE NEW MARTYRS IN SYRIA AND IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN WILL CRY “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY IS THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN” Though their suffering was great, the salvation of Islam will burst forth like the sun rising in the East.

We will have to help the survivors learn to forgive.

in Jesus most precious name
tweedlealice