Does God call priests who owe money?

[Jerry-Jet]

It seems like the requirement for becomming a priest always stipulates not having outstanding debts.

Does God ever call men to the priesthood that owe more they they will ever be able to repay?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It seems like the requirement for becomming a priest always stipulates not having outstanding debts.

Does God ever call men to the priesthood that owe more they they will ever be able to repay?

I do not believe that God calls anyone who can not chose to respond to the call.

Also, one does not have a call until they are called by a bishop (or religious superior) to be ordained.

If someone with debts feel that they have a call then their first job is to get that cleared up how ever they can.

The Church is not here to pay off debts of people who think they may have a calling.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

There’s nothing wrong with working to pay off your debts so that you would be able to pursue a vocation to the priesthood or religious life. The Laboure Society may be able to help.

 

[puzzleannie]

If God is calling you to the priesthood, he will also guide you in ways of handling your current obligations so that you may be free to follow that call. I am not sure from OPs questions who he expects to assume his debts if he does not intend to honor them.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I don’t expect anyone to pay off any debts and am married and am not interested in the priesthood–I had just read on the internet that being debt free was a requirement from alot of dioceses and hadn’t heard of the Laboure Society and was curious.

Does one have to be debt free if they are converting to the Catholic Church from a Protestant denomination before they make their first confession?

If one ever declares bankruptcy do they still have a moral obligation to pay off all their debts?

If they aren’t paying them are they in a state of mortal sin?

The reason I ask these questions is because I’ve never seen them answered.

I would imagine if RCIA required people to prove that either they were debt free or were steadily paying off all of their creditors that there would be far fewer people who could enter the church.

I guess what I’m really asking is are the debt free requirements for entering the priesthood more stringent than any considerations like that in joining the Catholic Church?

 

[mercygate]

I don’t expect anyone to pay off any debts and am married and am not interested in the priesthood–I had just read on the internet that being debt free was a requirement from alot of dioceses and hadn’t heard of the Laboure Society and was curious.

Does one have to be debt free if they are converting to the Catholic Church from a Protestant denomination before they make their first confession?

If one ever declares bankruptcy do they still have a moral obligation to pay off all their debts?

If they aren’t paying them are they in a state of mortal sin?

The reason I ask these questions is because I’ve never seen them answered.

I would imagine if RCIA required people to prove that either they were debrt free or were steadily paying off all of their creditors that there would be far fewer people who could enter the church.

I guess what I’m really asking is are the debt free requirements for entering the priesthood more stringent than any considerations like that in joining the Catholic Church?

Answer: of course the requirements are more stringent for aspiring priests. All are called to the fullness of the faith. Not all are called to ministerial priesthood.

I suppose that a man who had personal assets but who also owed, say, an educational debt, could enter a diocesan seminary if his assets were greater than his debt. Diocesan priests are not required to vow poverty; so as long as he could take care of the debt and it would be financially more sound not to pay it off all at once, I suppose that could be negotiable.

The point of no debt for seminarians & Religious is that the diocese or Religious instititute couldn’t possibly pick up everybody’s debt – especially the level of debt people incur today. I always urge people to go to the college that gives them the most money. Forget prestige. Getting out the game debt-free is worth more than a Harvard diploma. Studies show that success correlates with the ability to get in to the big name schools but not necessarily with GOING to the big name schools! As for credit card debt: Yuk! Getting up to your neck in debt for material things is, in itself, almost a disqualifier for a vocation.

As for being debt free: wouldn’t that be the goal of any Christian? RCIA won’t ask.

Declaring bankruptcy may relieve the legal responsibility to pay up but the moral responsibility stands. Mortal sin? That would be determined by a lot of things and there is no one answer.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I don’t expect anyone to pay off any debts and am married and am not interested in the priesthood–I had just read on the internet that being debt free was a requirement from alot of dioceses and hadn’t heard of the Laboure Society and was curious.

Does one have to be debt free if they are converting to the Catholic Church from a Protestant denomination before they make their first confession?

No. This isn’t even a consideration.

If one ever declares bankruptcy do they still have a moral obligation to pay off all their debts?

I don’t know. I would think there should be a good faith effort. But, I don’t know.

If they aren’t paying them are they in a state of mortal sin?

Depends. Are all three criteria for mortal sin present?

The reason I ask these questions is because I’ve never seen them answered.

I would imagine if RCIA required people to prove that either they were debt free or were steadily paying off all of their creditors that there would be far fewer people who could enter the church.

I guess what I’m really asking is are the debt free requirements for entering the priesthood more stringent than any considerations like that in joining the Catholic Church?

I don’t know if I understand that last part correctly, but those who are called to priesthood or religious life need to take care of these matters before entering.

It’s a practical matter. It’s not like there will be a lot of extra income to pay off debts, especially escessive debt. Plus, the way one handles personal finances could be an indicator of how they might handle church finances or even non-financial things. It’s about good judgement in the end. A priest doesn’t have to be a financial expert but at least be prudent in that area.

For religious it would be a diferent matter. Many Orders have a vow of poverty so it’s not like they want to absorb additional financial burdens.

Finally, the priesthood and religious life are not places for people to land/hide when they allow life to get out of control. A person can love God and be faithful but have some shortcomings in some areas. We all do. But those who are have these vocations really need to have their ducks in a row and demonstrate the virtues for the vocations to which they are called require maturity.

I beileve the Society mentioned upthread helps those who have student debt, not “I’ve-been-irresponcible-with-money” debt.

I could see that mercygate already answered this when I previewed the post but I’ll post anyway.

 

[Kielbasi]

It seems like the requirement for becomming a priest always stipulates not having outstanding debts.

Does God ever call men to the priesthood that owe more they they will ever be able to repay?

This requirement makes sense, as religious priests take a vow of poverty and the prospects for diocesan priests to earn significant income to retire their debts is quite limited.

Think of the people who are owed the money, the folks who might have loaned you money on your promise to repay and now you are voluntarily putting yourself in a position of not being able to pay them back after they sacrificed for you.

The Church doesn’t want to be involved in helping someone beat their debts, child support payments or other obligations. If that is what you wish to do, I can recommend the French Foreign Legion.

 

[puzzleannie]

I
Does one have to be debt free if they are converting to the Catholic Church from a Protestant denomination before they make their first confession?

If
I would imagine if RCIA required people to prove that either they were debt free or were steadily paying off all of their creditors that there would be far fewer people who could enter the church.

I guess what I’m really asking is are the debt free requirements for entering the priesthood more stringent than any considerations like that in joining the Catholic Church?

why on earth would you even make such an assumption? the requirement for candidates for priesthood and religious being debt free before they enter formation is so that their orders or bishops do not become responsible for their debt. If a layperson is converting, the Church is not going to assume their financial obligations, so it is not an issue. Sounds to me like this is not a sincere question, so I am going to ignore the rest of the discussion.

 

[augieboo]

It seems like the requirement for becomming a priest always stipulates not having outstanding debts.

Does God ever call men to the priesthood that owe more they they will ever be able to repay?

That’s not strictly true.

Personal debt pretty much must be zero, but I have seen at least one or two orders of priests which allow educational debt. These tend to be orders that only take younger vocations. Their stated rationale is that since they prefer college graduates, and since it’s pretty near impossible to graduate from college today without student loans, then they have to go with that.

The orders of which I speak make the loan payments for their aspirants until ordination, at which point they actually assume the remaining debt.

I’m sorry that I can’t remember which orders these are, but I didn’t look too hard at them because I am older, (43), and they only take younger guys.

In addition, some dioceses are okay with a small amount of educational debt as well.

 

[Closer]

Are you saying that someone who may have incurred medical debt due to no insurance years ago will not be allowed to fulfill his/her vocation? I am sure The Church doesn’t want people entering the Religious life to try and avoid their debt but I can’t imagine that a person who is truly called and not trying to avoid debt wouldn’t be allowed to fulfill his/her vocation. Some responsibilities are greater than others. Gods call should and does supercede all others.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Are you saying that someone who may have incurred medical debt due to no insurance years ago will not be allowed to fulfill his/her vocation? I am sure The Church doesn’t want people entering the Religious life to try and avoid their debt but I can’t imagine that a person who is truly called and not trying to avoid debt wouldn’t be allowed to fulfill his/her vocation. Some responsibilities are greater than others. Gods call should and does supercede all others.

Who would you suggest should pay the debt? From a purely practical point of view, if someone owes tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, where is a diocese or religious order going to get the money (especially if there are multiple people in the same boat)?

There may be an individual or a group who would be willing to help, but I’m not under the impression that religious orders have such huge endowments that they could take that on.

Perhaps a large debt is a sign that the person is not being called to the religious life.

 

[Closer]

Who would you suggest should pay the debt? From a purely practical point of view, if someone owes tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, where is a diocese or religious order going to get the money (especially if there are multiple people in the same boat)?

There may be an individual or a group who would be willing to help, but I’m not under the impression that religious orders have such huge endowments that they could take that on.

Perhaps a large debt is a sign that the person is not being called to the religious life.

I don’t know, that is why I was asking the question.

If a person is unable to pay the debt and is called to the Religious life, should they ignore the call? Surely you don’t ignore an eternal call due to worldly debt, maybe the debt just goes unpaid.

I would assume a person does what he/she can about the debt, but shouldn’t resist a vocation or be held back from it due to money owed.

Shouldn’t each case be looked at individually?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Just because someone THINKS they have a call to the religious life, doesn’t mean that they actually do.

Many orders, for example, have age limits. If you’re too old, they won’t accept you. You could make the same argument about them. “Surely you don’t ignore an eternal call due to [being too old].” Yet if you’re 40 and the order you are interested in doesn’t take people over 30, then you have to accept that no matter what you may think, you don’t have a call to that order. For a call to really exist, it has to be confirmed by the order.

If you have a debt then you need to try and pay it yourself or find someone else to help.

I would assume a person does what he/she can about the debt, but shouldn’t resist a vocation or be held back from it due to money owed.

That’s dishonorable at best. It would hardly seem in keeping with the spirit of following Jesus to stick others with your debts. And it would be difficult to discern who is applying for admission because they really mean it and who is applying as a way of avoiding paying off debts.

 

[Closer]

Just because someone THINKS they have a call to the religious life, doesn’t mean that they actually do.

Many orders, for example, have age limits. If you’re too old, they won’t accept you. You could make the same argument about them. “Surely you don’t ignore an eternal call due to [being too old].” Yet if you’re 40 and the order you are interested in doesn’t take people over 30, then you have to accept that no matter what you may think, you don’t have a call to that order. For a call to really exist, it has to be confirmed by the order.

If you have a debt then you need to try and pay it yourself or find someone else to help.

That’s dishonorable at best. It would hardly seem in keeping with the spirit of following Jesus to stick others with your debts. And it would be difficult to discern who is applying for admission because they really mean it and who is applying as a way of avoiding paying off debts.

I undersatand your arguments and points. I also agree that it is not a call if you are fleeing to avoid debt. There are also somethings that can preclude you from the Priesthood. (Gender for One) Orders can descide who they want and set their own rules to age, education etc. etc.

What I am trying to say is that debt- in and of itself -should not be an impediment to the Priesthood.

We have seen many Priests and Religious who have had troubled pasts and turned their lives around. Why should debt be any
different? If someone who used to be a a drug dealer and a thief can become a Priest, why not someone who owes money? Obviously if you have ever stolen anything you owe someone, you have a debt. Why does it appearing on a credit report make it any differant?

My question is “Is it possible to become a Priest/ Religious with debt?”

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

My question is “Is it possible to become a Priest/ Religious with debt?”

I suppose the answer is that if a diocese or religious order is willing to accept you, then yes. But I don’t think it’s likely.