Does God give religion or reason?

[justinthemartyr]

Does God demand us to utilize religion in order to more fully understand and grow closer to Him?

or Does God only want us to use reason, apart from religion?

Would not reason, without religion, leave us with mere knowledge?
Does mere knowledge lack the use of willful action necessary to grow in relationship with God that can only be found in religion?

 

[NDfan]

Does God demand us to utilize religion in order to more fully understand and grow closer to Him?

or Does God only want us to use reason, apart from religion?

Would not reason, without religion, leave us with mere knowledge?
Does mere knowledge lack the use of willful action necessary to grow in relationship with God that can only be found in religion?

An interesting question would be does reason lead to religion or religion to reason? Many people have religion but can’t reason too well why they believe other than that’s what they were taught. If you ask someone to reason out something particular to their faith they stumble horribly yet they would say they’re religious.

I think religion can sometimes get in the way of having a relationship with GOD. Your assumption is that religion leads to action and knowledge doesn’t. I think knowledge can lead us to GOD but that doesn’t mean we have to be religious.

PEACE

 

[hamba2han]

If God wanted his creations to use reason alone, it would not be necessary at all for Him to send them Prophets (peace be upon them all) throughout the course of human history, to explain and teach His creations about the proper way to worship their Creator.

 

[NDfan]

If God wanted his creations to use reason alone, it would not be necessary at all for Him to send them Prophets (peace be upon them all) to explain and teach them about the proper way to worship their Creator.

Interesting point hamba. So are you saying without the prophets we could not reason that there is a GOD?

 

[hamba2han]

Interesting point hamba. So are you saying without the prophets we could not reason that there is a GOD?

Without the Prophets (pbuta), the creations would not have a clue as to the correct and proper way that their Creator wants them to worship Him.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Does God give religion or reason?

No doubt that our reasoning ability is in-born. So we can all agree that God gave us Reason.

The only real problem is, did God give us religion? For sure its not in-born. Religion is something that you learn from other people. You dont learn it from God himself. And the fact that religions contradict each other means that some or all of these religions are false or man made

 

[justinthemartyr]

Does God give religion or reason?

No doubt that our reasoning ability is in-born. So we can all agree that God gave us Reason.

The only real problem is, did God give us religion? For sure its not in-born. Religion is something that you learn from other people. You dont learn it from God himself. And the fact that religions contradict each other means that some or all of these religions are false or man made

If religion is not inborn, then how did it come about with the very first humans? How did the first humans come to talk to God, and then worship this God that they intuitively knew existed from the evidence shouting from His creation?

I am not saying that every facet of our ritual in within our religion is inborn, but to say that religion, in the most general sense, is not within us, is absurd.

God has revealed far more to his people as time has passed, and we have today what Christ has given us through His one Church, which is the fulfillment of Judaism… It is both reasonable, and realistic.

 

[AgnosTheist]

If religion is not inborn, then how did it come about with the very first humans?

the same way we always come up with an assorted variety of superstitions.

How did the first humans come to talk to God, and then worship this God that they intuitively knew existed from the evidence shouting from His creation?

The same way Mohammad came to believe that he was hearing stuff from the Angel Gabriel.

God has revealed far more to his people as time has passed, and we have today what Christ has given us through His one Church, which is the fulfillment of Judaism… It is both reasonable, and realistic.

there is a lot of good & reasonable stuff in christianity. but there is also a lot of the opposite.

 

[justinthemartyr]

the same way we always come up with an assorted variety of superstitions.

The same way Mohammad came to believe that he was hearing stuff from the Angel Gabriel.

there is a lot of good & reasonable stuff in christianity. but there is also a lot of the opposite.

you will have to prove your first statement, since you have no evidence to support it.

Your second statement is also vague. How exactly did muhammed come to believe that he was hearing from the angel gabriel? How does that apply to this?

Third, There is a lot of good and reasonable stuff in your theories, and a lot of the opposite.

Did inventing language in order to communicate with other humans dervive from superstition, unreasonable and infected thinking and false angels?

Because that is how we communicate with God, or anyone else that we do not speak their language initially, we find a way to communicate with one we know is there. No different than if you were in a jail and on the other side of the wall in solitary was another human being. you would find a way to communicate and relate to them. this is religion in a basic form.

 

[Alexius]

Reason and Religion working together…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[justinthemartyr]

I find it interesting that people who claim REASON as their god(small g) assume so much and do not hold to truths.

God has revealed that math cannot be parsed. it is what it is and is absolute truth.

Reason only confirms truths that God has created, which cannot be parsed, they are what they are, whether that be the atomic make up of everything in the universe known to mankind, or the fact that it always takes a male and female human being to conceive a child. no exceptions whatsoever, you absolutely need a sperm and an egg.

Therefore because reason only confirms truth, persons claiming reason as their god have to lie to themselves and others in orde to justify their position. in other words, they do not have the capacity in their minds to think deeply enough, or wisely enough to see truth in most any matter. they seem to find a way out of the conversation by side tracking and diverting attention to something else, even if that be a particular word.

They live on non truths, non scientific, non truths, and unreasonable insufficient thinking. human thinking, which is not of God, but of the world.

You ask a person who’s god is reason, how did the first humans communicate with God, even though they knew of no way to communicate with God, and the person will tell you that

“the same same way muhammed thought the angel gabriel was speaking to him”.

This makes no sense, and does not answer the question, but diverts the question towards something entirely different.

The first humans did not have ANY reference to angels, to God, to anything, they just knew something much bigger and more intelligent was out there and they wanted to contact this creator if you will, and so they tested this power greater than themselves in many ways. this is no different than if you were to have a forest in the wilderness and you absolutely knew there were people living there, yet you never saw them, yet you see the evidence of them being there(spearheads, footprints etc) so you try to communicate with them to let them know you want to be friends with them. you leave them food, gifts, things humans desire and need to live, animal skins for warmth etc… to show them you know they are there, even though you have not seen them.

You communicate in the most basic form you can, that you yourself know you could identify with.

this has occurred again and again throughout the history of the world.
yet the person with reason as their god cannot reason this way, they jump to rediculous conclusions and make false claims to try to confuse others and somehow justify their own lies to themselves and others, to protect their so called “reason and intellect”
of which they are not even using.
Reason and intellect reveal Truth from factual evidences that speak of that particular Truth.

 

[justinthemartyr]

An interesting question would be does reason lead to religion or religion to reason? Many people have religion but can’t reason too well why they believe other than that’s what they were taught. If you ask someone to reason out something particular to their faith they stumble horribly yet they would say they’re religious.

I think religion can sometimes get in the way of having a relationship with GOD. Your assumption is that religion leads to action and knowledge doesn’t. I think knowledge can lead us to GOD but that doesn’t mean we have to be religious.

PEACE

this would not be true religion. knowledge of God without knowing God, is not religion.

religion is based in knowing God and growing in your faith, mere knowledge without willful participation is not religion.

religion is a binding of many with God.

 

[AgnosTheist]

you will have to prove your first statement, since you have no evidence to support it.

what do you want me to prove about such superstions as “Its bad luck to walk under a ladder”?

Your second statement is also vague. How exactly did muhammed come to believe that he was hearing from the angel gabriel? How does that apply to this?

you were asking how people came to believe that they recieved a message from God. and i used mohammad as an example. how did he believe it was from god? i think its a combination of religious delusions mixed with clinical schizophrenia. add a touch of charm & a doze of strong personality, and VOILA! you get a prophet.

Did inventing language in order to communicate with other humans dervive from superstition, unreasonable and infected thinking and false angels?

no.

Because that is how we communicate with God, or anyone else that we do not speak their language initially, we find a way to communicate with one we know is there. No different than if you were in a jail and on the other side of the wall in solitary was another human being. you would find a way to communicate and relate to them. this is religion in a basic form.

Yeah thats how people used to communicate with ZEUS. So what?

 

[Exalt]

Does God give religion or reason?

You forgot “neither.”

 

[bnapgh]

Merriam - Webster:
Religion
Main Entry: re•li•gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely Date: 13th century
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
. b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural
. . . (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

Is ‘‘Faith’’ a gift? Does anyone say ‘‘no’’?

How does religion differ from Faith?

Is ‘‘religion’’ a gift?

Using the above definitions, religion generally seems to be a belief system espoused or chosen.

Did God ‘‘give’’ us the belief system that is Christianity (or Catholicism or any other formal ‘‘religion’’)? Is this merely semantics?

Most I have read identify ‘‘reason’’ as (perhaps) all that separates humans from other animals.

Did it evolve or did God give it to us?

However anyone answers any of the above, are there not innumerable examples of people deducing a ‘‘god’’ (as opposed to the God)?

Therefore, is it not logical to say that the concept of god is reasonable?