Does God live on Kolob?

[Catholic_Dude]

Ok, I was looking on another page where someone mentioned Kolob and even a LDS hymn that was about it. But I dont know much else. I have also heard God lives on Kolob.
So what/where exacly is Kolob and does God live on it or something? Just tell me anything about it.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Here is a link if you want to hear the song online sung solo, you have to go to the lower half of the page where it says “score details”:
sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/show_score.pl?scoreid=50699

 

[ben_dy]

Catholic Dude:

Ok, I was looking on another page where someone mentioned Kolob and even a LDS hymn that was about it. But I don’t know much else. I have also heard God lives on Kolob.
So what/where exactly is Kolob and does God live on it or something? Just tell me anything about it.

It was me, myself, who mistakenly referred to Kolob as the planet on which God lives - my error was in having read Abraham 3:9 - “And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.” - which clearly states “nigh (that is near) Kolob”. No, is a STAR and it is the greatest star and it is the star that is nearest to God:

Abraham 3:2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

I took the last sentence to mean a planet - that “the same order” where someone could be standing MUST be a planet and not a star but I realized that “the same order as that upon which thou standest” could mean either the order of ‘planets’ or the order of ‘stars’ and that 3:2 expressly reads that Kolob is a star.

And, as I was searching for the lyrics to “If You Could Hie to Kolob” I came across this photo that was from BYU’s Department of Astronomy that someone had mistakenly labeled “Planet Kolob” (wish I knew exactly how to insert photos here because I saved it!) which just added to my mistake.

But, still, don’t think too lightly of Kolob even though it is just a star - it governs our sun and provides our light. I don’t think we know the name of God’s home planet, but there is a physical description in LDS scripture - I’m just too tired to look it up right now!

 

[ben_dy]

ben_dy:

I don’t think we know the name of God’s home planet, but there is a physical description in LDS scripture - I’m just too tired to look it up right now!

OK - I awoke from my laziness and found the physical description of the planet on which God resides (but I’m still unsure if it is named in LDS scripture):

From ‘Doctrine and Covenents’, Section 130:

6 The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;
7 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.
8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.

And this planet, after it is sanctified, will be much the same:

9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

For reasons that I don’t understand, even though this earth “will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon” we will still need our own personal Urim and Thummim when those who get to the celestial kingdom arrive:

D&C 130:10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known; 11 And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

I’m supposing that those reaching the celestial kingdom will need this personal Urim and Thummim because they will no longer be “inhabitants who dwell thereon” this earth (and most have not been since some time in the 1840’s).

This is just my understanding from what I’ve read - there’s likely evidence to the contrary out there but I think I can say with some certainty that Kolob is a STAR and NOT the main planet where God lives.

 

[arieh0310]

There is a hymn with Kolob in it? What rhymes with Kolob?

 

[ben_dy]

arieh0310:

There is a hymn with Kolob in it? What rhymes with Kolob?

I think - but others know - that it’s hymn #284 in the LDS hymnal; and of the five stanzas, there is no instance in which Kolob needs be rhymned. All stanzas, from “Times & Seasons”

If You Could Hie to Kolob, 284 - William W. Phelps

1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
   And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,**
   Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
   Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

1. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
   Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
   Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
   Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

1. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
   Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
   There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
   There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

1. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
   There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
   There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
   There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

1. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
   There is no end to being; There is no death above.
   There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
   There is no end to being; There is no death above.

**Some post 2002 versions have this verse changed to:
“And then continue onward with the speed of light to fly”

…something to do with tachyons, I would think, being faster than the speed of light with a lower amount of energy - the less energy, the faster tachyons fly (or hie). The SLOWEST movement of tachyons would be the speed of light. It’s physics beyond me.

 

[arieh0310]

I guess nothing rhymes with Kolob, but it would be hillarious if they tried.

 

[PaulDupre]

The next time a LDS denies that his church acknowledges a plurality of gods, ask why this hymn is in the official LDS Hymnal. See the end of verse 1 and the beginning of verse 2:

Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

1. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
   Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

PaulDupre:

The next time a LDS denies that his church acknowledges a plurality of gods, ask why this hymn is in the official LDS Hymnal. See the end of verse 1 and the beginning of verse 2:

I did not even notice that, but its there listed 2 times.

 

[catsrus]

The ONE and ONLY God does not reside on a star or a planet. He is timeless and endless and the Creator of all.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Is this a real LDS doctrine or is this akin to the creation story that one need not take literally to be Catholic? Must LDS members actually believe that God resides on Kolob? If so, can we build a telescope powerful enough to see God?

 

[Casen]

My BYU religion teacher told us the verses regarding the earth becoming a celestial “sea of glass” were figurative meaning that everything in lower kingdoms would be before the eyes of the inhabitants of the celestial kingdom. I doubt it would be very fun to literally live on a giant marble. The “white stone” was explained as providing the inhabitants with knowledge of those things of higher kingdoms.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I suppose I should ask the question more specifically: Must LDS members believe that God has a physical home on Kolob (or on a planet orbiting Kolob)?

 

[BJRumph]

Well, since the “sea of glass” and white stones are just adaptations of things found in John’s Apocalypse, I think most non-mormons would be content to frame these things in a metaphorical/allegorical sense, rather than literally.

As the ‘larger’ point of the U&T (NOT UT- no Longhorns here!) it to reveal the Hand (Will) of God to its user’s, I had (back in the day) envisioned the meaning of the Earth becoming our U&T in the same light that others say that Nature is the Book of God (that is, the natural world reveals the Hand and Glory of God, but only to those who can see it, His kadosh/chosen ones/sons&daugthers). Unfortunately such a veiw does not espouse a church-specific worldveiw, and therefore provides(-ed) no support for the lds claim of being the OTC in this regard.

Specifically, to say that God’s world is His U&T (as it says that it is 'before him" rather than just its inhabitants, inferring his usage of it) contradicts this (my interpretation) veiw (as why would He need something to reveal to him his own will, unless he is but following the will of another or is otherwise un-omniscient), while supporting the limited god of lds teaching.

However, I would suggest that the *literal teachings * of God’s residence in BoAb should not necessarily be read into Smith’s D&C teachings which seem to borrow a metaphorical/allegorical context from their source document of Revelations. Smith may have intended it to be so read (that is, literally), but his language in the limited quotes here suggest (to me anyway) that he was not being literal in the D&C.

Anyway, yes, the BoAb’s SW teaching is that God (the Father, anyway) resides on a planet near Kolob in a literal sense (though not necessarily a planet of kolob’s). Simultaneously, I do not think that Casen is mistaken in suggesting that the more fantastic descriptions (such as the sea of glass) in the D&C were meant to be figurative.

 

[majick275]

(NOT UT- no Longhorns here!)

Speak for yourself! Hook 'em Horns!

 

[BJRumph]

Must LDS members believe that God has a physical home on Kolob (or on a planet orbiting Kolob)?

The requirement of this belief is much harder to nail down. It is an express teaching of their cannonized scripture that has not been reiterated or clarified by other scripture (such as the NT clarifiying the role of OT law), so it must be accepted on some level. As it also supports the various beliefs regarding the very nature and history of God as accepted by and ‘revealed’ to the lds, it would certainly be more productive for them to believe it than to reject it (from an internal perspective anyway).

But as to an absolute necessity or requirement, I cannot say, as I cannot recall anything that requires them to believe any of the SW, other than the injunction to follow, and in a practical sense ‘believe in’, the prophet.

 

[majick275]

On a more serious note…

I think the descriptions are meant to be symbolic/figurative and the “jist” is that the very dwelling place of God is infused with “revelation” and is A source of omniscience. (One could make the case that God has no need of this but that his presence creates this effect that “we” could benefit from if we were able to dwell in his presence)

The white stone representing the individual “key” (as in authority) to utilize this ourselves. (the Giant U&T)

 

[BJ_Colbert]

I believe in artistic license, and there are many songs which use the writers words to convey a thought that may be just their own mixed with scripture and lessons learned or heard through life.
I suppose there are many songs of Catholic origin that do not exactly express the Catholic beliefs literally. Many authors have expressed their own feelings on death and eternity.
Seneca said: The day which we fear as our last is but the birthday of eternity.
Rabindranath Tagore said:
Death is not extinguishing the light; it is putting out the lamp because dawn has come.
Benjamin Franklin wrote to his niece upon the death of his brother,
“It is the will of God and nature that these mortal bodies be laid aside when the soul is to enter into real life. This is rather an embryo state_a preparation for living. A man is not completely born until he is dead.”
I think there are many people who believe dust to dust and that there is no eternal life. That does not mean these persons were wrong to express their belief.

Many persons relay their thoughts through poem or song and it does not mean that everyone in the world or any church should take the words literally. Even if it is printed word, does not mean it is doctrine, but merely the meanderings of a human mind. Could be truth, or could be mixed with truth, or could be just individual understanding of truth. The psalms and parables were not necessarily literal, but had truth to be taught through creative story telling and poetic verse.
Why do we think that because one person expresses their thoughts it means that a whole group of people think exactly, precisely without exception every bit of that same thought?
Songs and poems are creative thought.
Just my opinion, I’m sure you all disagree vehemently and that is OK too.
God does not live on Kolob, we do not know exactly where he lives, do you? I do not believe any human knows exactly, but we can all imagine in any way we wish to imagine. I do not know the names of all the stars and I do not know any people who do, perhaps God told Abraham of a star named Kolob in another universe far from our own, and that He dwells somewhere near that star. Who is to say it is, or isn’t true? Can any of you prove without any doubt that it isn’t true? I can’t prove it either way, just as I can not prove to you that God exists, or that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit exist. I must know for myself that it is true and each of you must know for yourselves individually that it is true.

BJColbert

 

[Jerusha]

I guess nothing rhymes with Kolob, but it would be hillarious if they tried.

:bounce: Glob?? of J-ll-?

Woops. I broke silence.