Does God love Mary more than the rest of us?

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One definition of love is willing the best for the other, and another is desiring to be close to the other. We were all born with original sin and a wounded nature due to events beyond our control, and this separates us from God. God went out of the way to give Mary a special workaround, essentially bringing her closer to him and giving her a better nature. Since he willed more good for her than he does for us, doesn’t it follow that he loves her more?

If he does love her more, it follows that he could love those of us on earth in different amounts. That doesn’t seem right. I mean, it fits with our experience of the injustice of the world, innocents suffering and all, but it doesn’t fit with God’s supposed justice.

I’m thinking about giving up my faith over this. It’s the problem of evil, then God effectively saying “I have a way to fix original sin, but it’s not for you.”
 
cliffclinging said:
Since he willed more good for her than he does for us, doesn’t it follow that he loves her more?
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Not necessarily. Her sinlessness was for His glory, not hers. Even then, the love God has for Mary is different than anyone else as she is His mother. I love my family for example. Do I love my mother more than my father or sibling simply because she was the one who actually birthed me? No, but I have a special relationship with her because of it, that does not lessen nor diminish the ones with my father and sibling.

Anyway, that’s my two cents.
 
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And what must it feel like to be free from original sin in such a sinful world? Not nice I think. Also, think of what Mary had to endure. I don’t think it was particularly amazing being born without original sin in that sense, it implied more responsibility. God knew Mary could take it, but it doesn’t mean we all could. Or maybe God knew Mary would need an extra bit of grace (hence no original sin) to go through all that she did and gave it to her via the Immaculate Conception. I don’t think having different graces means he loves some people more. I do think our capacity to receive said love is different but our cup overflows for each of us. I used to stuggle with this as well btw.

*btw yes God does love you very much I’m sure of it. If you were the greatest saint he’d love you as much as He would if you were a serial killer
 
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The answer is yes or no depending on the context. Here’s a good article:
http://jimmyakin.com/2006/08/who_does_god_lo.html4

The article above presents more of a layman’s perspective on this part of the Summa by St. Thomas Aquinas (see articles 3 and 4):
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm2

As to why God doesn’t conceive us all immaculately? God ultimately does what is best for all of us. Remember, Adam and Eve were created immaculate, but they still sinned. On the other hand, many born in sin are ultimately saved. Sometimes it may be good for us to experience life without God to really appreciate and devote ourselves to life with him. As the parable of workers in the fields shows, God calls us at different times to receive the same reward. Some are saints from childhood (or earlier). Some are converted in the middle of life. Some are converted at the 11th hour.

Likewise, some live virtuously their whole life, and fall away into sin at the end. Some in the middle of life. And some live a whole life of vice.

We may be called at different times, but we all have the opportunity to be saved (nor to be lost).
 
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cliffclinging said:
I’m thinking about giving up my faith over this. It’s the problem of evil, then God effectively saying “I have a way to fix original sin, but it’s not for you.”
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Yes, I would say this is definitely a problem with evil.

Jesus died on the cross to “fix original sin:” and this "“fix” is most definitely for you, as it is for all of us. It is hard for us, with our finite human minds, to understand the depth and breadth of God’s love. It is not a matter of loving one person “more”. God has certain relationships with certain people. Mary fulfilled a role in salvation history that no one else did or will.

Instead of comparing ourselves with others, it is in our best interest to look to our own relationship with God, and make it the best it can possibly be. Leaving the faith because someone else has a different kind of relationship with Jesus is childish thinking. It is nothing new. There were those who were jealous of Moses because God had a special relationship with him also. God wants a relationship with each of us such that we are all filled with His goodness and character. He is willing to sanctify you so that you can have with him the unique relationship with Him that no one else can have.

He has created you for a purpose, and no one can fulfill that purpose just in the way you are able. It is up to you to find out what that gift and call is for your life, and be about achieving it. Without this, you will never be truly happy.
cliffclinging said:
it doesn’t fit with God’s supposed justice.
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Again, it is not possible with our finite human minds at times to understand and appreciate God’s justice. We place faith in Him that He knows what He is doing. Ultimately, we are his creatures, and if He chooses, he can vaporize all of us, body, soul, and spirit. But He created us out of love, and for love. He will act in love.
 
A man owns a small factory. It manufactures widgets. He has a vice president of manufacturing, he has a vice president of sales, he has professional staff that perform different necessary services (accounting, security, etc. etc.) And he has the factory workers who actually make and distribute the widgets.

He appreciates (loves) his VPs, his staff, and his workers. Maybe in different ways, but the basic appreciation and care and concern are the same.

This may be a very frivolous or elementary example, but I do think it goes to the idea that love is manifested in different ways to different people, but it springs from the same source.
My two cents
 
“Does God love Mary more than the rest of us?”

Let’s hope so. We’re not all that lovable are we, when we think about it sincerely?
 
This is the problem with the human race, this hierarchy of value mentality. That’s how humans think. That’s how animals think.

I think from a human perspective it may seem like God loves Mary more, but on the other hand it has been said that God loves the sinner more. The problem is i think this is all just analogical representations of the importance that some individual holds in the narrative of salvation. Outside of that narrative it is meaningless to think of someone as being more important to existence than somebody else. You have to remember God gives us the very thing that he loves, so i don’t think it makes sense to think that God loves someone more than another if by that one thinks that God is caused to love more by some created individual. I think it makes more sense to think that God creates certain individuals with an important destiny to bring about some good for the greater good of everybody else,

So, really, it is because God loves us so much that he created Mary, and so if it even makes sense to say he loves Mary more it would only be because of that fact; her role in the birth of Jesus and thus the salvation of everybody else. Of course Jesus loves his mother so she represents an very important role for all eternity that we should respect and give adoration to…

God is not to be thought of as a human parent whom for some reason loves their son Mike more than their son Steve just because Mike has a future as a baseball player.
 
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cliffclinging said:
One definition of love is willing the best for the other, and another is desiring to be close to the other. We were all born with original sin and a wounded nature due to events beyond our control, and this separates us from God. God went out of the way to give Mary a special workaround, essentially bringing her closer to him and giving her a better nature. Since he willed more good for her than he does for us, doesn’t it follow that he loves her more?

If he does love her more, it follows that he could love those of us on earth in different amounts. That doesn’t seem right. I mean, it fits with our experience of the injustice of the world, innocents suffering and all, but it doesn’t fit with God’s supposed justice.

I’m thinking about giving up my faith over this. It’s the problem of evil, then God effectively saying “I have a way to fix original sin, but it’s not for you.”
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Here’s the problem with these kinds of “problems.”

We start with our own definitions: “Love is defined as blah blah blah” then proceed to apply that definition to God, the Perfect, the Infinite. So here we already see the flaw: we start with ourselves and our own definitions and try to fit God into that definition. Typical human.

However, since God has so graciously revealed himself to us, we know to start first off all with what God himself has shown himself as: God is Love. The divine Love is identical with his very essence, which is one reason the Trinity is a necessary reality. Because the divine Love is God’s very nature, it is impossible for God to love one person more and the other less. The proper way of understanding is to start with God and work our way down, not start with us and mold God in our own image and likeness.

And here we enter the mystery of grace and free will, something that has not and probably never will be fully defined by the Church outside of affirming that both are real. God’s love may be infinite, but man’s capacity to receive and respond to that love is finite and variable. At the same time, God has ordained out of his own free choice to lay out a certain order of grace, and for whatever reason was in the divine Mind, Mary was singled out for this one particular grace. The Church teaches that this gift is singular because her privilege is singular. It was not necessary, but it was fitting.

Why is this? Beats me. Theologians have grappled over the mystery of grace and free will, and some of them have become heretics because of it. But some have also put forth their theories, submitted to the Church, and have become saints.

Rather than “give up my faith”, the proper response is to first of all humbly acknowledge what the Church affirms, then study the heck out of it. It’s not like there’s a shortage of theology out there in the mystery of God, grace, free will, and predestination.

For me, I’m not going to worry about whether God loves Jack more than he does me. All I care about is that I am loved by the Infinite Love, and I could ask for nothing more. Any limitations are my own doing, and I need his grace to expand my capacity to receive his love and love him back.
 
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Here’s the rub:
In the beginning, humanity was close with God. Adam and Eve were with præternatural gifts and they had one commandment, to not eat the fruit of the trees in the center of the garden.

They sinned, and thus closed off their selves from God. Like a great light being covered by a large object, the world was buried in darkness, separation from God. This begets much evil.

But, God is not defeated. He comes into Creation and gives Light to the world. Christ established Baptism and the Sacraments, bringing back the Light of the World to the world, but inside of us, and eventually He shall come again, world without end.

Really, your original sin is gone after baptism.

Mary was to carrying God, and thus had to be made holy. However, note that it is a teaching of our Lord that from those with much, much is to be expected.
 
cliffclinging said:
I’m thinking about giving up my faith over this. It’s the problem of evil, then God effectively saying “I have a way to fix original sin, but it’s not for you.”
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I think you must abandon your “faith” to start looking for a true mature faith, based on Jesus Christ message.
 
God loves us all infinitely because that is his nature as infinite love. We are all created in his image and God’s image is not junk. God may love us all infinitely but we are not all the same and will not experience or know his love in the same way. The more we open ourselves to his love the more we can receive it and the more we can reflect it.

Mary perfectly reflects God’s love. The early Church Fathers describe Mary as very special, a chosen one, to be the mother of God’s Son. And therefore was like the tabernacle that housed the word of God, the ark. They said she was without stain, which is what immaculate means. She was kept free from the stain of sin so she could be the tabernacle for the Word made flesh.
 
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Ioana said:
Also, think of what Mary had to endure.
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I’m not particularly close to Mary but Fr Mike once talked about how lonely she was. To always resisting sin when everyone around her was sinning would have sucked.
 
Why are somethings in creation better than another? God creates better things because He loves them more.

Since God wills all men to be saved, why are not all saved?

(1Ti 2:3 DRB) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,

(1Ti 2:4 DRB) Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

(Isa 46:10 DRB) Who shew from the beginning the things that shall be at last, and from ancient times the things that as yet are not done, saying: My counsel shall stand, and all my will shall be done:

Since we are saved by grace, God must give His elect more grace than a sinner, But He still would give the sinner enough grace to be saved, and to His elect effective grace which the elect can not refuse, which God permits the sinners to reject.

(Eph 4:7 DRB) But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.
(Joh 3:27 DRB) John answered and said: A man cannot receive any thing, unless it be given him from heaven.

We are to love our wives, we love our wife differently than our neighbors wives, so would Christ love His Church in the same way?

(Eph 5:25 DRB) Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it

:I believe that God does have different degrees of Love, some more and some less.

(Rom 9:12 DRB) Not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said to her: The elder shall serve the younger.

(Rom 9:13 DRB) As it is written: Jacob I have loved: but Esau I have hated.

(Psa 5:6 DRB) (5:7) Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie. The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.

Just my thoughts.
 
Lea101 said:
I’m not particularly close to Mary but Fr Mike once talked about how lonely she was. To always resisting sin when everyone around her was sinning would have sucked.
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I have never thought about that before. However, I think because Mary was full of grace and never sinned she would have been very close to God and therefore may not have been so lonely. In addition, would she have been lonely since she had Jesus as her son? And St. Joseph as her husband?

We can, even though we are sinful ourselves, experience isolation from others who are living for this world when we are trying to live for another. Because it means choosing to live our lives differently than them.

But it isn’t really sinfulness that creates true love. Those living in sin abandoning God may have company but they don’t have true unconditional love of God and therefore are the most lonely. Always seeking and never satisfied. For they have not found the infinite well spring. Our hearts are restless until they rest in Him.
 
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I think I found the video about Mary you were talking about.

 
As far as Mary’s Immaculate Conception you are seeing it wrong. The early Church Fathers describe Mary as without stain, the new Eve, and as the ark or tabernacle that was chosen to hold the Word of God. Then later in the middle ages theologians were divided on whether Mary had the stain of original sin briefly or not. But even then it was so very brief and she would have been saved almost immediately. The question was if Mary was saved through Jesus how was she saved if she was free from original sin? St. Thomas Aquinas originally taught that she was free from original sin and then later changed his mind as seen in the summa. But then it can be argued that he changed his mind again to the orthodox view as can be seen in a later homily. But the answer to the question of how Mary was saved still divided. In fact there was a rivalry between the dominicans (those following Aquinas that Mary had original sin) and the Franciscans over this issue. The answer came later by someone (Blessed John Duns Scotus) who said if it was fitting for Mary to be free from the stain of original sin and God had the power to do it then he just did it. Mary could be saved in two ways. As one could be saved from the stain of falling into quick sand by being pulled out of it after you have fallen in, or to be saved by being prevented from falling in, in the first place. Either way Mary was saved by Jesus for she would have fallen in if it hadn’t been for him. So this view that Mary was was saved prior to falling in maintains the early Church Father’s view that Mary was without stain. So Mary was created to be a most unique creature for a specific purpose that was part of God’s plan to redeem all of us. So it wasn’t that God loved her more that she was free from original sin, but it was that God so loved the world that he sent his only Son. And what more fitting way was through the most Blessed Virgin and tabernacle of God?

I recommended you picking up Gary Michuta’s book ‘Making Sense of Mary’.

Here are just a few quotes from the early Church Fathers.
"He [Jesus] was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me {ante A.D. 235).

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” Origen, Homily 1 {A.D. 244).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns 27:8 {A.D. 370).
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“The very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.” Jacob of Sarug {ante A.D. 521).
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