Does God permit death when we are most ready?

[JMJ_Theresa]

I have read/heard somewhere, sometime ago that God permits death when we are most ready for our judgement. This makes perfect sense to me in consideration of His great Mercy. However, when looking at life, it seems that more would die before the age of reason if that were the case. Perhaps it is true in some cases and not others? Or, God extends life spans in response to prayers of others?

Or is this all backwards? Perhaps God gives us a task to do for the kingdom and the completion or failure to complete determines our lifespans?

Does anyone have any insight?

 

[Milliardo]

I am not sure about that; what about those who die in accidents, for instance? Now, we are not aware if they are truly ready to die or not in that moment, yet more likely than not those who die in accidents have not foreseen this happening to them. The same with those who died instantly in a heart attack or stroke; we cannot say for certain. Yet we do pray that in their time of death they were prepared to meet the Lord. In short, we leave all that up into His hands.

 

[padraig]

I remember reading a very holy Belgian monk from the 19th century, Father Paul of Moll, a great mystic.

Father Paul said that everyone is told a few days before their death and asks them to accept it, explaining why He is taking them. Peoply usually are not concious of this visit.

What makes me think that this might be so is that saints and mystics often know their death day. Also God is very good mannered and courteous and it would be like something he would do.

Fr Paul also says we know at a deep level were we are going when we die and what degree of glory we will have in heaven. Also that when we meet others we know all about them too.

He gets a mention here:

chantcd.com/doct/mysteries_marvels.htm

Its an intriging and nice idea, though its very speculative.

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

padraig:

I remember reading a very holy Belgian monk from the 19th century, Father Paul of Moll, a great mystic.

Father Paul said that everyone is told a few days before their death and asks them to accept it, explaining why He is taking them. Peoply usually are not concious of this visit.

What makes me think that this might be so is that saints and mystics often know their death day. Also God is very good mannered and courteous and it would be like something he would do.

Fr Paul also says we know at a deep level were we are going when we die and what degree of glory we will have in heaven. Also that when we meet others we know all about them too.

He gets a mention here:

chantcd.com/doct/mysteries_marvels.htm

Its an intriging and nice idea, though its very speculative.

Wow.

Actually, I was thinking of when the soul is most likely to be saved–at the greatest state of holiness. So, if a person had a moment of great repentence in the middle of a very unrepentent life, God would take him then. Conversely, a person who is gradually growing in sanctity would be allowed to grow old so that person would reach a greater state of glory in heaven.

 

[TOP]

Humbly, I feel not only does He permit it during ones life , but as a believer He prepares others involved , like immediate family… The past 2 years my family has been hit with near misses and direct hits with death. I’ve had a few near misses with death myself starting with a battle with cancer. This in itself drew my family and others to spiritual support for me, that helped prepare us for the deaths of both my parents and a separate, fatal car wreck I was involved in. If it wasn’t for the Lords gradually increasing strengthening of my family’s Faith these things would have been alot harder to understand. Finally, these battles with death could have been avoided by looking at it as battles for eternal life. That faith in eternal life has been paramount in dealing with such trials. Yes, I believe the Lord knows when all of us are at our fullness and May decide to take us if it fullfills His Will. This is just how God has helped me, to answer my questions and I hope it helps you, Tim
P.S. God answered alot of prayers for me to survive stage 3 cancer, but not just for me to survive, but for the ones who prayed also. I live indebted to both God and my family, my Church and others. Maybe I haven’t reached my fullness as long as I keep striving to better my life with others. Seems like a fair deal to me.

 

[padraig]

In scripture the Lord talks about some of this.

He talks of a wheatfields and angels harvesting.

He warns us about being careful not to think we have answers, when we haven’t.

But He also says to ‘Read the signs of the times’/

 

[deb1]

In some instances this it is very possible that God waits until we are at our most ready but life itself holds out instances in which the people were obviously not at their most holy. People who are suffer violent deaths, for instance, don’t have an opportunity to prepare themselves.

 

[padraig]

This reminds me of the story of the seven wise and seven foolish virgins, We must always be ready for we ‘know not the day or hour’.

 

[Fergal]

If that is the case then why are the corpses not mounting up outside the Confessionals?

I have never seen a body die immediately aftery Confession have you? Surely after a good confession is when we are most ready?

 

[thistle]

Fergal:

If that is the case then why are the corpses not mounting up outside the Confessionals?

I have never seen a body die immediately aftery Confession have you? Surely after a good confession is when we are most ready?

Or even when we are all children without sin!

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

My understanding is that God takes everyone when they are at their best. Even the ones who end up in hell are taken before they do more harm to themselves. So their torments will be less.
Some children go because God can see in His infinite wisdom what their future holds.
Aborted babies etc could perhaps have their mind illumined to make a quick choice before they die.
Gods plan for each person is known only to him generally. Sometimes people are told they will go to Heaven such as St Bernadette or the seers at Fatima. But generally we must keep watch as we do not know when the son of man will return.
Our Lord constantly warns us to avoid sin and be ready to face him.
I hope I am ready when that time comes.

 

[thistle]

**My understanding is that God takes everyone when they are at their best. ** Even the ones who end up in hell are taken before they do more harm to themselves. So their torments will be less.
Some children go because God can see in His infinite wisdom what their future holds.
Aborted babies etc could perhaps have their mind illumined to make a quick choice before they die.
Gods plan for each person is known only to him generally. Sometimes people are told they will go to Heaven such as St Bernadette or the seers at Fatima. But generally we must keep watch as we do not know when the son of man will return.
Our Lord constantly warns us to avoid sin and be ready to face him.
I hope I am ready when that time comes.

I’m interested to know where your understanding comes from. Is there a Church document about this?

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

thistle:

I’m interested to know where your understanding comes from. Is there a Church document about this?

Furrow > Beyond Death > Number 878http://www.escrivaworks.org/images/...scrivaworks.org/images/misc/pixtrans.gifThere is an answer to everything, except death. And death is the answer to everything.

This is a quote from St Josemaria Escriva.

My understanding comes from study. God is the ultimate master of this universe and mysteriously he is the master of our lives in many ways. God causes wars and famines and pestilences as punishment. He warned the Jews in the old testament that the man who is cruel to widows and orphans will die. God will bring about their just retribution. There is many examples in the good book that show that God is somehow at the helm of all that exists and his plan is gradually unfolding how he wants it to. And we form a large part of that plan. God chooses when it is time for us to die. You might say what about murders, abortions and suicide etc. Somehow mysteriously it is all a part of Gods plan. He is not responsible for the mess in this world and I don’t believe in predestination. But God is at the helm. And his ways are unfathomable.
Honour thy father and thy mother that you may have a long life. Actually it refers to a life filled with virtue. But the scriptures are riddled with things like this.

 

[deb1]

Furrow > Beyond Death > Number 878http://www.escrivaworks.org/images/...scrivaworks.org/images/misc/pixtrans.gifThere is an answer to everything, except death. And death is the answer to everything.

This is a quote from St Josemaria Escriva.

My understanding comes from study. God is the ultimate master of this universe and mysteriously he is the master of our lives in many ways. God causes wars and famines and pestilences as punishment. He warned the Jews in the old testament that the man who is cruel to widows and orphans will die. God will bring about their just retribution. There is many examples in the good book that show that God is somehow at the helm of all that exists and his plan is gradually unfolding how he wants it to. And we form a large part of that plan. God chooses when it is time for us to die. You might say what about murders, abortions and suicide etc. Somehow mysteriously it is all a part of Gods plan. He is not responsible for the mess in this world and I don’t believe in predestination. But God is at the helm. And his ways are unfathomable.
Honour thy father and thy mother that you may have a long life. Actually it refers to a life filled with virtue. But the scriptures are riddled with things like this.

I do believe that God is at the helm in everything but in order for people to die at their best, Hitler would have had to die at birth and we would never have a problem with serial killers.

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

It does seem that a lot of notorious sinners would have died in childhood if God took us when we were most ready.

I remember reading that St. Therese’s mother asked God to take her children young if they would be lost in adulthood. That is certainly my own prayer.

Is it possible that we each have a work to do, and we are given the opportunity to do that?

Certainly, God must permit death for some at particular times to save their souls. And others are prolonged to allow them to fulfull God’s glory (Lazarus).

I think there must be some truth to the idea that God times death to save souls. Or, perhaps I cling to it because it is such a comfort to me.

 

[batteddy]

This makes perfect sense to me in consideration of His great Mercy. However, when looking at life, it seems that more would die before the age of reason if that were the case.

I think God arranges all history through his Providence so that it is most just and good. Even in spite of our free will, God is able to arrange everything for the best possible.

But I don’t think he takes us when we are “most ready”, as in at our holiest. I think he takes us when we have made our choice in our life and aren’t going to choose any different even if given more time.

A baby might be taken because that is their final state. If he let them keep living, they never would have gained any more glory or holiness or merit, and so he takes them.

A bad person might be taken even though earlier in their life they were in a state of grace because that state of grace was transitory, meaning…obviously…they were not set in their choiceas “more information”, as it were, more life experiences changed their mind. But now God takes them because there is no more hope that they will repent or even get any less bad. In all possible histories in the future, they wind up in hell.

A good person won’t be taken until there is no more possibilities in the future that they will change.

People are taken not when they are most ready, but when they have fully chosen their state and there is no more life experience that could change their mind.

Like the tested angels, humans must be given all the necessary information and allowed to choose based on a lifetime of events that is complete…that is, where no new experience could change their mind…or else it would not be fair, if there might have been possible futures where they could choose to change their mind.

God would not take a person in a state of mortal sin if there was a future possibility where they would repent. He would let them repent. God must take people when there is no more hope they will change.

God would not take a person in a state of grace if there was a future situation where they might mortally sin. He would test them first, as people cannot have made their choice until they have been fully tested with all information, like the angels.

However, I do believe God always guides us to the situations where God knows we will make the best choices, even if they are bad.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I know a priest who visits hospitals and dying catholics. Only one in four accepts the sacraments, God gives them one more chance before they die.
With Judas did’nt Jesus say it would be better if that man had not been born at all.
I guess God has a plan for us all.
If Judas did not betray Jesus then we might not have much to look forward to in the afterlife. So Judas had to live to fulfill Gods will.
Gods plans are a mystery to us. But God is in complete contol.
I had a friend say that no good could come from a man who was a rotten person. But has’nt history proven that God sometimes works through sinners.