Does man deserve things from God?

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fakename

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I was pondering this question thusly:

Man doesn’t deserve things from God -I’m pretty sure that’s true.
But all the good things in his life comes from God.
But justice is a good thing.
Then man doesn’t deserve justice -yet justice means, “giving someone their due”. So does man deserve things from God? Any catholic ideas on the subject?
 
In some sense I think we do. If it is true that God creates each and every one of us, I think we deserve a little. I mean, if I were to breed a bunch of puppies for the hell of it and then dump them in an alley, this would be immoral, right? So I think if God were to just create us and then leave us with nothing, that would be wrong. I don’t think we DESERVE anything per se based on any intrinsic merit of our own necessarily, just based on the fact that as our creator, God has a certain responsibility toward His creation.
 
God has no responsibility for us. God has Love for us, and from Love He gives us everything.

God bless,
jd
 
God has no responsibility for us. God has Love for us, and from Love He gives us everything.

God bless,
jd
But the question is that if God doesn’t have to create justice (that is, if nothing per se deserves to be created), then the justice a man gives to another man can’t be owed to that man since if all creation is not per se, deserving of existence; and if justice means doing to someone what he rightfully deserves,it would seem that justice isn’t deserved by anyone. So really, why does justice exist?

Somehow, God created justice for His glory but at the same time, justice didn’t need to come into being…
 
But the question is that if God doesn’t have to create justice (that is, if nothing per se deserves to be created), then the justice a man gives to another man can’t be owed to that man since if all creation is not per se, deserving of existence; and if justice means doing to someone what he rightfully deserves,it would seem that justice isn’t deserved by anyone. So really, why does justice exist?

Somehow, God created justice for His glory but at the same time, justice didn’t need to come into being…
Fakename:

Despite that God is Fecundity, he does not have to create any of this world. He created (in a sense) Jesus, and the Father and Son, together created the Holy Spirit. His razon d’etre, which we get a glimmer of from revelation, is the infinite contemplation of himself, in the mutual knowledge and love of the three divine Persons. (See: Col. i 13, and Heb. i 3.).

I want to try to answer you more completely, but, I must get some sleep. If you don’t mind, I’d like to continue tomorrow morning, EST.

God bless,
jd
 
Fakename:

Despite that God is Fecundity, he does not have to create any of this world. He created (in a sense) Jesus, and the Father and Son, together created the Holy Spirit. His razon d’etre, which we get a glimmer of from revelation, is the infinite contemplation of himself, in the mutual knowledge and love of the three divine Persons. (See: Col. i 13, and Heb. i 3.).

I want to try to answer you more completely, but, I must get some sleep. If you don’t mind, I’d like to continue tomorrow morning, EST.

God bless,
jd
Whoa, I’m 3 hours behind you and I’ve got an engagement in the morning so I’ll see you at around the afternoon or PM hours.
 
Whoa, I’m 3 hours behind you and I’ve got an engagement in the morning so I’ll see you at around the afternoon or PM hours.
Sorry, I meant afternoon hours there so I could talk to you in the morning HERE but not there…
 
God created everything out of His LOVE.

Love is an action. God’s Love is complete. The one loved is deserving of justice because that’s part of what Love does. Man deserves Justice because he is loved.

We are commanded by God to love Him and to love others for the love of God (my own paraphrasing here.)

I have a God given duty to love others. While Love is a command from God, to me it seems that I should WANT to love simply out of being grateful for the life God has given me, and not just out of a sense of commanded duty.

Duty is an action I owe others. In loving others, I must work for justice for all as best I can.

If I fulfill my duty to love others, I am assured of returning to God after I die. If I fail badly in that duty, justice requires I go to Hell. A loving God is both merciful and Just.

I know I am imperfect and do not always love as well as I should. I constantly seek to reconcile my sins and faults by asking for forgiveness and mercy, and by constantly recommiting my efforts to love.
 
But the question is that if God doesn’t have to create justice (that is, if nothing per se deserves to be created), then the justice a man gives to another man can’t be owed to that man since if all creation is not per se, deserving of existence; and if justice means doing to someone what he rightfully deserves,it would seem that justice isn’t deserved by anyone. So really, why does justice exist?

Somehow, God created justice for His glory but at the same time, justice didn’t need to come into being…
Fakename:

Sorry, I was unable to get online this morning. I had a surprise: my brother come home a week early from the Virgin Islands, where he has been working for some time. (St. Croix - must be aweful!) In any event, I’ll get to it right now:

"The word justice is sometimes taken in a broad sense to signify the assemblage of all the virtues. Thus the state of supernatural and preternatural perfection in which our first parents were constituted before the fall is known as the state of original justice. The reason is that the possession of all these gifts rendered them rightly ordered, so that the lower faculties of their soul were subordinate to the higher, and the higher were subordinate to God. In the same sense, St. Joseph is called a just man*, and we speak of the reception of the supernatural life as justification.

In the strict sense, justice is a cardinal virtue, and is defined as “the moral virtue inclining the will to render to everyone his right, according to some measure of equality.” - Outlines of Moral theology, Very Rev. Francis J. Connell, p. 102, 1962.

The above is a short description of what justice is for the Creator and for us. In my opinion, the two key words, in this passage, are the ones in bold print. To me, a right is that deference one person accords another precisely because it is reciprocated - in like measure. Now, we have equivocated its meaning. But, ultimately, one has to conceive of the inception of the concept from its earliest appearance. The earliest appearance of the sense of it had to have been at a time when no less than two, but possibly more, adult, reasonable, communicative people existed on the earth. Otherwise wherever people gathered, the biggest fear would not have been the sabre-toothed cats!

Equality, in my opinion, is a concept that is a foundational belief or principle, as it was one of those things that was held without grounds. The very few people that existed had to know or sense ‘equality’ even before they could render conceptions verbally. Otherwise there would have been virtually no loyalty amongst the tribe members. I mean, no deference paid to any other human beings. So, justice between human beings was that almost overwhelming sense of respect engendered from equality that nurtured interpersonal deference. That we each deserve is because we each owe: reciprocity.

God did not need to be connected to men triangularly. God created man as an outpouring of his Divine Love, which includes fecundity. But, he never gave up any free will in doing this. In fact, that he did it without any coercion or necessity makes the man of God’s creation that much more worthy. One could say, it made man the pinnacle of worthiness among natural (created) things.

God bless,
jd
 
Since God has created us in His image and likeness He has chosen to confer obligations on Himself towards us as well as on us towards Him. We are members of His family and He has a duty of care just as we have a duty of reverence and gratitude. But duty is insignificant when God’s love comes into the picture. In theory we deserve His care but in practice we receive far more than we could ever deserve. We have only to think of the Passion and Death of Jesus to realise that we can never be worthy of all that He has given us. Our thoughts should be on what we can do for Him rather than on what He can do for us!
 
Since God has created us in His image and likeness He has chosen to confer obligations on Himself towards us as well as on us towards Him. We are members of His family and He has a duty of care just as we have a duty of reverence and gratitude. But duty is insignificant when God’s love comes into the picture. In theory we deserve His care but in practice we receive far more than we could ever deserve. We have only to think of the Passion and Death of Jesus to realise that we can never be worthy of all that He has given us. Our thoughts should be on what we can do for Him rather than on what He can do for us!
👍 Well said!
 
I was pondering this question thusly:

Man doesn’t deserve things from God -I’m pretty sure that’s true.
But all the good things in his life comes from God.
But justice is a good thing.
Then man doesn’t deserve justice -yet justice means, “giving someone their due”. So does man deserve things from God? Any catholic ideas on the subject?
God gives us that which makes us deserving; that is, he is the giver of that which is good in us, and since we in some shape or form participate in good, we are deserving of Gods love in that respect and context. That is why it is said that good works alone cannot save you. We must understand that we do no merit Gods love simply by our own will and power, since it is God that gives us the good of will and power; it belongs to God. God loves God, as in, God loves that which is good, and he loves the good that he gives. In and of ourselves it is impossible that we deserve good or can have good as the effect of our own actions, since we are absolutely nothing without God.

Thus it can be said that we are infinitely undeserving in so far as whether our actions merit any value. If we ought to be loved, it is only because God is God, and not because of what we do.
 
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