Does matter have a cause?

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I am in a debate with some who claims there is no proof that matter has a cause. He will only admit that “events” have causes, but not Matter itself. Is this some kind of circular reasoning or is it just a way to confuse me? Is there a difference between matter has a cause and the existence of matter is caused? What’s the proof that existence of matter has a cause?

Also help with the unmoved mover. I don’t get the principle well. Matter never moves itself. I get that it means something like causation, but what does it really mean?
 
I am not an expert on this, but denying that matter has a cause is denying the scientifically proven Big Bang theory.
Which we Theists know is caused by God
 
I can’t really understand what they’re claiming. It seems like they might be aristotleans and be referring to “prime matter”? Aristotle and Aquinas (philosophically at least) would not have argued that the cosmos began to exist, the argument that it did is known as the Kalam argument, which perhaps you are trying to get at here.

reasonablefaith.org/kalam

The second argument refers not to just locomotion, but change in general (when ever you hear “motion” in this argument, think change). We know from experience that some thing are in motion (if you want a 1 hour lecture on this argument, click the youtube link below). Motion is just the reduction of something in potentiality to something in actuality (If you don’t understand the act-potency distinction you need to understand this first before trying to argue this cosmological argument. Read the quote below first.) But this can only be done by something also in actuality, but nothing can be both in actuality and in potentiality at the same time and in the same respect, so nothing can be the cause of its own moving (You can’t have something that is both actually hot and potentially hot at the same time, for example). So whatever is moved must be moved by another thing in motion, but if this other thing were itself in motion, it would need something to move it, and so on. But this chain could not go onto infinity, because then there would never be any motion, so we have to arrive at a first move, a cause of all change in the universe, and this we call God. One way to visualize this is to consider looking outside your window and seeing a train going by. You can’t see the beginning or the end of the train, just cart after cart moving past. You conclude that there must be a locomotive pulling the train, because if there weren’t, the train would never be moving in the first place, and an infinite series of boxcars would be impossible.
Being and Change, Potency and Act
The two poles of metaphysics are Being and Change. In our daily life we see things that are, and we see them change. Yet how can change be reconciled with existence? If a thing changes it is no longer what it was. So said Heraclitus. If thing remains what it is, it cannot change. So said Parmenides.
For Heraclitus, all was change, constant flux. Being is therefore an illusion: the billiard ball that lands in the pocket is not the billiard ball that was struck, and the man who held the cue is not the man who sees the ball come to rest. There is no identity, there is no being. All is one thing, that is, nothing. The billiard ball has no identity.
For Parmenides, being was pre-eminent. Change is therefore an illusion. The billiard ball did not roll, was not struck. All that is, is One Being. The billiard ball has no identity.
Aristotle found the happy medium between these extremes. A being may have existence in actuality, and a special kind of non-existence called potency. The billiard ball is actually on the table; but in potency it is in the pocket. It is part of the billiard ball’s nature to be capable of being struck, to be capable of rolling across green felt, to be capable of coming to rest in a pocket. The ball can undergo these changes, and yet remain the same ball: it loses the actuality of being at rest on the table and gains the actuality of being at rest in the pocket, it loses the potency of being at rest in the pocket and gains the potency of being at rest on the table. The billiard ball has identity, persistence through change.
aquinas.wjduquette.com/?p=407=1

youtube.com/watch?v=BAIHs5TJRqQ
 
Why does it matter?😃

Really folks, these kind of arguments are a waste of time. Non-believers will talk in circles all day long as to why God does not exist, and those of us who know better can get caught talking in circles to catch them up.

Live as a Christian and let them be. Let the power of the Holy Spirit work through you, and relax a bit. Let God take care of it.
 
I am in a debate with some who claims there is no proof that matter has a cause. He will only admit that “events” have causes, but not Matter itself. Is this some kind of circular reasoning or is it just a way to confuse me? Is there a difference between matter has a cause and the existence of matter is caused? What’s the proof that existence of matter has a cause?

Also help with the unmoved mover. I don’t get the principle well. Matter never moves itself. I get that it means something like causation, but what does it really mean?
Matter did not cause itself to come into being. The event of matter coming into being had a cause.

And listen to Cricket2. People like this (by which I don’t mean all atheists) aren’t interested in a real discussion. They are masters of the “duck and dive” form of debate. There is no argument you can present that will convince them. Pray for him.
 
The concept of the unmoved mover is similar to “the first cause” or “uncaused cause.” It’s very simple, and just essentially says that:
  1. We see things moving
  2. Everything that is currently moving was pushed into motion by something else pushing it
  3. This string of “X pushed Y, which pushed Z” can be regressed infinitely
  4. Therefore, there must be an initial mover that did not require a push in order to be in motion-- it’s very nature itself is simply to be in motion
  5. This initial mover is what we call God
Similarly, all things that exist came into being through something else existing. Infinite regress is possible of extrapolating effects and causes. Therefore, there must be an initial cause that is not an effect of another cause. The first cause is what we call God.

The person you’re arguing with sounds antagonistic. I don’t think it’s necessarily a waste of time to discuss with him, but if his heart isn’t open to change then it’s like talking at a brick wall. Just tell him to sit down with a cup of hot chocolate and some Aquinas and everything will be okay. 😃
 
Thank you! I really have to stop getting myself into these endless internet debates!😦 If it is not fundamentalists, it is secularists or atheists.

Can you all please explain to me the infinite regression causes? I know in my bones it makes sense but i cant find the words. why is an infinite causes impossible? I point out proof of intelligence in making the universe because so many things are improbable. He said intelligence is a physical creator because we only know physical creators. I said that physical creators is just universe itself.

Now he is asking me “why can’t something come from nothing”? Why assume that?
 
Now he is asking me “why can’t something come from nothing”? Why assume that?
If something can indeed come from nothing without a spurious event (that is not God, who transcends and is outside of creation), then why is there something rather than nothing? Why does reality exist rather than not exist? He can’t appeal to outside extrinsic laws or characteristics of reality that somehow force ordered creation. If he does, that is what we mean by God.

And in regards to the infinite regression:
  1. You exist
  2. You exist because your parents existed
  3. Your parents existed because your parents’ parents existed, etc.
  4. Human beings (and your entire ancestral line) were able to exist because of the Earth
  5. The Earth came into being because the universe came into being
  6. The universe came into being because of the Big Bang
  7. The Big Bang came into being from a (possibly) natural cosmological event
  8. This natural event itself had a natural event that lead to its ability to come into existence
That’s essentially it. All natural phenomena are explainable by other natural phenomena, working through the linear arrow of time (cause and effect). We still weren’t able to explain ultimately why you exist, because of the unknowably infinite chain of natural events that preceded you coming into existence. Nothing holds within itself the inherent purpose for its own existence. That is, nothing exists simply to exist. Except for the logically and philosophically necessary existence of something upon which all existence takes its original cause, purpose, and foundation: God (YHWH: I Am He Who Is).

You should watch Fr. Robert Barron’s discussions about Aquinas and his proofs for the existence of God. He’s a wonderful evangelist and intellectual.
 
Thank you! I really have to stop getting myself into these endless internet debates!😦 If it is not fundamentalists, it is secularists or atheists.

Can you all please explain to me the infinite regression causes? I know in my bones it makes sense but i cant find the words. why is an infinite causes impossible? I point out proof of intelligence in making the universe because so many things are improbable. He said intelligence is a physical creator because we only know physical creators. I said that physical creators is just universe itself.

Now he is asking me “why can’t something come from nothing”? Why assume that?
I have bolded two words from your last post. When speaking with your friend I would suggest that you do not use the word proof or say that anything is proven. When you say that so many things are improbable, the appropriate thing to say is that it is then probable there is intelligence. Saying something is highly improbable does mean anything is proven, just that you are given more probability to something. Some people will point that out in a heartbeat, I know I would, and it will do nothing but discredit your argument if you do not have the correct language.
 
If something can indeed come from nothing without a spurious event (that is not God, who transcends and is outside of creation), then why is there something rather than nothing? Why does reality exist rather than not exist? He can’t appeal to outside extrinsic laws or characteristics of reality that somehow force ordered creation. If he does, that is what we mean by God.

And in regards to the infinite regression:
  1. You exist
  2. You exist because your parents existed
  3. Your parents existed because your parents’ parents existed, etc.
  4. Human beings (and your entire ancestral line) were able to exist because of the Earth
  5. The Earth came into being because the universe came into being
  6. The universe came into being because of the Big Bang
  7. The Big Bang came into being from a (possibly) natural cosmological event
  8. This natural event itself had a natural event that lead to its ability to come into existence
That’s essentially it. All natural phenomena are explainable by other natural phenomena, working through the linear arrow of time (cause and effect). We still weren’t able to explain ultimately why you exist, because of the unknowably infinite chain of natural events that preceded you coming into existence. Nothing holds within itself the inherent purpose for its own existence. That is, nothing exists simply to exist. Except for the logically and philosophically necessary existence of something upon which all existence takes its original cause, purpose, and foundation: God (YHWH: I Am He Who Is).

You should watch Fr. Robert Barron’s discussions about Aquinas and his proofs for the existence of God. He’s a wonderful evangelist and intellectual.
I think there is a problem, however: our materialist friend could reply, “What if there were an infinite succession of Big Bangs?” Aquinas would say (and I agree with him) that there is no purely philosophical way to refute that argument.

Why not? Basically, most of the causes in the list are not causes in the strict sense of the word.

Aquinas defines a “cause” as a principle on which something depends, either for its being (existence) or its “becoming” (any changes that occur to it). The key word here is depends. There is a simple rule by which we can identify a cause: if you take it away, you also immediately take away its effect. Remove the oxygen, and the fire goes out; don’t water the plants, and they wilt; stop eating, and you starve, etc. According to the Scholastic maxim, *sublata causa, tollitur effectus/] (remove the cause, and you take away the effect).

So, causes (strictly speaking) are always perfectly simultaneous with their effect: they are always present.

Now, what confuses us is that there are a lot of things in the world that were causes (in the strict sense) in the past, but are no longer causes in this sense. For example, my parents: they were the cause (in the strict sense) of my existence when they begot me, but they are not so anymore. For Aquinas, these “past” causes are an example of what he calls “per accidens causes.”

The key difference, as I mentioned, is dependence for being or becoming: without a cause (in the strict sense), the effect is impossible. The dependence is a strict one. For a so-called “per accidens” cause, the effect, as it were, only “happens” to depend on it. My parents, for example, are still living, but when they go, God willing, to their heavenly reward, I will not die at the same moment. My earthly existence does not depend on theirs in the radical way that it did at the moment of my conception.

And a series of “per accidens” causes really could go on forever, in either direction, if God wanted it to. (It is no harder for God to create an everlasting future—as He has in fact done for us—than to create an everlasting past.)

Now, returning to our proof for the existence of God, the way that Aquinas actually proceeds is not by the (per accidens) “causes” of the past, but by the chain of causality that there is in the present. So, the series could be


  1. *]There is change in the world. (The sun rises and sets, the earth experiences seasons, we grow and change, and so on.)
    *]A thing can only change if something else that already exists changes it. (Things don’t change themselves. A part of a thing can change another part, but not the same thing in the same respect.) So something must be setting those things in motion. (Gravitational attraction, the heat of the sun, the food we eat, etc.)
    *]And possibly, something sets even causes those changes.
    *]However, this series can’t go on forever because sublata causa, tollitur effectus: just as there are no buildings without foundations (otherwise it would fall), there must be an ultimate (or “first”) cause for all the motion (otherwise there would be no motion). This first cause must be uncaused, because otherwise it would not be the first one.

    Can we prove that there is only one first cause? Yes, we can: you see nothing “changes” the First Cause (it is uncaused). In order for there to the more than one of something, for there to be “members” of a “species,” that thing must be “malleable” or “changeable” in some way (it could be this individual or that individual). But something that is absolutely unchanged, indeed the source of all change, must also be absolutely unchangeable (for there is nothing capable of changing it). That is the case of the First Cause (it is unchangeable, hence unable to be a member of a “species”); therefore, there can be only one First Cause.*
 
I am in a debate with some who claims there is no proof that matter has a cause. He will only admit that “events” have causes, but not Matter itself. Is this some kind of circular reasoning or is it just a way to confuse me? Is there a difference between matter has a cause and the existence of matter is caused? What’s the proof that existence of matter has a cause?

Also help with the unmoved mover. I don’t get the principle well. Matter never moves itself. I get that it means something like causation, but what does it really mean?
Nowhere yet has anyone mentioned that it is almost assured that you both are not working with the same definition of the word “matter”. Scholastic metaphysics has a very precise definition of the word “matter” which is not the same as the definition of Modern Philosophy or popular science or modern physics, which your opponent most likely adheres to.

Define it out so that you both can learn. And good luck.
 
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