Does morality equal to free will?

[Bahman]

Th focal point of my discussion is that morality is a concept that help us to decide in a given circumstances. I don’t think if we can prove that existence of a moral principle could prove free will since free will is the ability to follow or precede a well accepted concept such as, like and dislike, moral and immoral etc. In another word, to me saying that morality means free will is like saying that dislike means we have free will. This means that we need twin of any concepts like moral an immoral in order to allow free will to intervene but existence of a twin concept does not mean that we have free will.

 

[TheSurvivor]

Here is a post from another thread that perhaps will help.

God has allowed us to chose him or ourselves but in order to have true freedom one would chose God. Is a train more free or better of if it decides to go off its rails? Nope, in fact it can not move at all (borrowed analogy not mine (train/fish). Is a fish better off if it decides to jump out of water, more free? Nope, it can hardly move cannot breathe and soon will surly die. If one has been in the dark so that he can not see evils his hands have wrought and then turns towards light, leaving behind evil, is he not more free? Is he not more free being able to see darkness and light more clearly?

May God Bless You and Show You Truth

 

[empther]

This is at least the third or fourth thread Bahman has started questioning the reality of free will.
Of course, if there is no free will than there is no God. That’s what this is about.

Friends,
let’s have a vote on whether or not there is free will. I’ll start it off.

Question: Does man have free will?

…Yes…No
empther… X…___
……
……
……
……
……

 

[TheSurvivor]

YES

 

[empther]

Thanks, TheSurvivor

Friends,
let’s have a vote on whether or not there is free will. I’ll start it off.

Question: Does man have free will?

…Yes… …No
empther… X…___
TheSurvivor…X …___
…___ …___
…___ …___
…___ …___
…___ …___

 

[inocente]

Th focal point of my discussion is that morality is a concept that help us to decide in a given circumstances. I don’t think if we can prove that existence of a moral principle could prove free will since free will is the ability to follow or precede a well accepted concept such as, like and dislike, moral and immoral etc. In another word, to me saying that morality means free will is like saying that dislike means we have free will. This means that we need twin of any concepts like moral an immoral in order to allow free will to intervene but existence of a twin concept does not mean that we have free will.

All I can get from this is that the existence of choices doesn’t in itself tell us how to choose.

But that seems too obvious to need a thread.

 

[SecretCatholic]

Have you considered that the concept of free will encompasses more than choosing between a moral and immoral choice? We can also choose between various equally moral choices. Chocolate or vanilla? Should I give Martha this gift or that one? Will I be a carpenter or a computer programmer?

 

[TarkanAttila]

Did it also occur to Bahman that immoral choices can seem moral? From a Thomistic understanding, moral and immoral isn’t a question of good and evil so much as good and a lesser good. (Because evil is, really, being less than you ought to be.) The question then being: are you selling yourself short?

For example, murder can seem moral if it will save another person’s life, or put an end to a number of other evils. How many times did they try to assassinate Hitler?

I once had a long drawn out discussion about whether it was moral in a computer game for the main character to have sex with his friend, who was otherwise very repressed and fearful of the world. Supporters of the notion said “Yes, because otherwise she will think you are rejecting her”. Not convincing to me, but given the situation, one does wonder…

Bahman, were you raised in a Calvinist setting? Just curious.