Does original sin condemn unborn babies?

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CathBoy1

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Does original sin condemn unborn babies?
If not, how do we reconcile this with the Catholic Dogma:

Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God.

I’m trying to understand this, because as I understand it if original sin doesn’t condemn unborn/unbaptized babies this Dogma is wrong, yet the idea that it does condemn them seems seriously wrong.
I understand that Catholic teaching has changed its view on limbo, but that doesn’t really answer the question.
Thanks for any help.
 
Look into limbo although the church seems to be doing away with it
 
Yes, the church does seem to be doing away with it, but if you look at the idea of limbo taken literally, it is the borders of hell, so are unborn/unbaptized babies condemned to the borders of hell?
I just can’t understand that.
 
Are you thinking of Dante’s inferno? If you check the catechism you will see that we trust these children to the mercy of God. If God is so merciful to us who are baptized and yet guilty of sometimes decades of personal sin (which these children obviously would not be guilty of), why would we think He would somehow not be merciful to THEM?
 
I know that the most recent catechism teaches that we trust them to God‘s mercy but that doesn’t really answer the question of what happens to them, also previous catechisms, popes and saints taught otherwise.
Also I believe that God is merciful and I cannot reconcile this, but it doesn’t answer the question at the core to say that we trust in God‘s mercy because we also trust that the Dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church are correct and the teaching of the church is one whom carries the stain of original sin cannot enter the Beatific vision of God
 
God is free to operate outside of his sacraments. That includes baptism.
 
God is free to do however he chooses, but your statement totally ignores the fact that the church teaches that she is infallible on matters of dogma.
 
CathBoy1 said:
Does original sin condemn unborn babies?
If not, how do we reconcile this with the Catholic Dogma:

Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God.

I’m trying to understand this, because as I understand it if original sin doesn’t condemn unborn/unbaptized babies this Dogma is wrong, yet the idea that it does condemn them seems seriously wrong.
I understand that Catholic teaching has changed its view on limbo, but that doesn’t really answer the question.
Thanks for any help.
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We don’t know. The Church doesn’t know, and she says as much. God did not reveal to us the answer to this question.

For this reason, the Church entrusts them to the mercy of God, who is not limited by his sacraments, but who also said that baptism is necessary for salvation.

“I don’t know” is really the only proper answer anyone can give. Anything else, limbo or otherwise is just speculation.
 
porthos11 said:
We don’t know. The Church doesn’t know, and she says as much. God did not reveal to us the answer to this question.
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But isn’t the church saying she knows by Dogmatically teaching that: One who dies with the stain of original sin cannot enter the Beatific vision of God?

And wouldn’t an unborn/unbaptized baby be stained with original sin? Otherwise we would have no need to proclaim the Immaculate Conception.
 
We do not know. We trust God’s mercy and know that whatever happens is for the best.
 
CathBoy1 said:
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porthos11:
We don’t know. The Church doesn’t know, and she says as much. God did not reveal to us the answer to this question.
Click to expand...
But isn’t the church saying she knows by Dogmatically teaching that: One who dies with the stain of original sin cannot enter the Beatific vision of God?

And wouldn’t an unborn/unbaptized baby be stained with original sin? Otherwise we would have no need to proclaim the Immaculate Conception.
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Does the Church really teach that?

The Church teaches definitively that one stained by mortal sin cannot enter the Beatific Vision. The Church merely claims ignorance on those stained by original sin alone.

Care to cite where the Church dogmatically teaches that one who does in original sin alone is permanently excluded from the Beatific Vision?
 
And there has been no DOGMA with respect to what happens to unbaptized babies that die.
Peace!
 
The dogma itself never states that an unbaptized person may NEVER be saved, only that baptism is the normal way to be saved. Remember that there is baptism of blood, and baptism of desire.

God has created these children. Do you really think that at the point of their death He cannot ask them, Child do you wish for salvation, and that they would not answer yes, and be saved??
 
To restate Catholic doctrine: Baptism is necessary for salvation, but the children who have died in the womb or after birth but before the age of reason without Baptism died without the Sacrament through no fault of their own. Original sin still remains on their soul but they could not have committed any actual sins. So, is it just that they should suffer in Hell? St. Augustine believed that children who die without Baptism would unfortunately have to go to Hell. Yet, as the Church has further understood this reality, this is not the case. Pope St. Pius X and other saints have disagreed and claimed that such children go to an special place called the Limbo of the Infants. The Catechism of St. Pius X states, “There should be the greatest anxiety to have infants baptised because, on account of their tender age, they are exposed to many dangers of death, and cannot be saved without Baptism.”

Pope Pius VI in Auctorem Fidei on August 28, 1794, particularly countered those who sought to deny the Limbo of the Infants when he wrote:
[Errors of the Synod of Pistoia.] The doctrine which rejects as a Pelagian fable that place of the lower regions (which the faithful generally designate by the name of limbo of the children) in which the souls of those departing with the sole guilt of original sin are punished with the punishment of the condemned, exclusive of the punishment of fire […] is false, rash, injurious to Catholic schools.
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Here is the teachings of previous Popes and Saints.
 
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When we look at what limbo is or what it means, taken literally it is the borders of hell.
I believe that’s why in modern times the church has kind of pulled away from teaching about limbo, yet they haven’t made any statements on previous teachings, other than to say to trust in God‘s mercy.
So on one hand they have a dogma saying all who die with the stain of original sin do not enter the beatific vision of God, yet those who do die with Original Sin we must trust to Gods mercy, which is kind of a conflicting statement against a dogma of the church.
 
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