Does the Catechism apply to Eastern Catholic Churches?

[Bookcat]

Yeah, I was always taught that’s a definite no-no. I don’t know how much the ECC’s might differ from the Latin viewpoint espoused by the CCC

That *IS *the ECC’s view. It IS espoused by all Catholic Churches (see the Eastern Code of Canon Law too…)

Please note the foot note to the CCC (which is the Catechism of the Catholic Church not only one of them) refers to the Eastern Code of Canon Law.

One is to confess any serious sins prior to receiving Holy Communion.

Note from Moderator:

This discussion on the role of canon law was sufficiently off-topic to create a new thread from it. It also, sadly, did not maintain our expectations for charitable discussion in places, but I expect that will be amended as the conversation continues.

Please see here for the original discussion asking if one may receive Communion in the Eastern Catholic Churches with a serious sin on the soul.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Eastern Catholicism Moderator

 

[dzheremi]

Yeah…but it’s primarily a Latin document. If it weren’t, Ukranian Catholics would have no reason to publish their own catechism.

See this very interesting thread for more information: What Catechism is used in the EC churches?

 

[Bookcat]

Yeah…but it’s primarily a Latin document. If it weren’t, Ukranian Catholics would have no reason to publish their own catechism.

Actually it is the Catechism of the Catholic Church --not the Catechism of the Roman Church. It is meant for the whole Catholic Church.

Now why did the Ukranian “Bishops” (insert proper title not sure what it is) why did they publish their own Catechism? Well because such was part of the original intent with the Catechism of the Catholic Church – local Bishops conferences etc where invited to make use of it in producing local catechisms. The US Bishops Conference for example has done just that as well. Such does not replace the Catechism of the Catholic Church but is to be in harmony with it and draw from it etc – making use of local culture etc etc.

So they had a reason --as has the USCCB – they were invited to do so in the very document proglemating the Catechism for the Whole Catholic Church

Thanks be to God for that Sui Juris Eastern Churches also have a Catechism in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church --such would be a great gift for their Churches. Especially in bringing out that which is of their particular nature.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Actually it is the Catechism of the Catholic Church --not the Catechism of the Roman Church. It is meant for the whole Catholic Church.

It is intended to be of universal use. However, it might be interesting for you to explore its history a bit before declaring it to be of full universal character (from original intent and conception).

HINT: There are indeed valid reasons why the UGCC undertook an initiative to publish its own Catechism. Also consider that the effort has the support of His Holiness.

Pope Benedict XVI showed special interest in the new catechism of UGCC “Christ is Our Easter” presented to him by Patriarch Sviatoslav. According to the Pope, it is a very important achievement of UGCC and a necessary tool for the implementation of the mentioned strategy [of further developing the UGCC globally].

source: press release quote from report of ad limina visit dated 16 March 2012

 

[Bookcat]

HINT: There are indeed valid reasons why the UGCC undertook an initiative to publish its own Catechism. Also consider that the effort has the support of His Holiness.

Absolutely

Wonderful!

And as I noted --this was* the *idea.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Actually it is the Catechism of the Catholic Church --not the Catechism of the Roman Church. It is meant for the whole Catholic Church.

Now why did the Ukranian “Bishops” (insert proper title not sure what it is) why did they publish their own Catechism? Well because such was part of the original intent with the Catechism of the Catholic Church – local Bishops conferences etc where invited to make use of it in producing local catechisms. The US Bishops Conference for example has done just that as well. Such does not replace the Catechism of the Catholic Church but is to be in harmony with it and draw from it etc – making use of local culture etc etc.

So they had a reason --as has the USCCB – they were invited to do so in the very document proglemating the Catechism for the Whole Catholic Church

Thanks be to God for that Sui Juris Eastern Churches also have a Catechism in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church --such would be a great gift for their Churches. Especially in bringing out that which is of their particular nature.

The Ukrainian Catechism is not a local catechism, it is an Eastern Catechism for all Ukrainian Catholics everywhere. The CCC enjoins Roman Bishops to make local versions, as in Canadian adaptation, US adaptation, Japanese adaptation. Its really two different things.

 

[Bookcat]

The Ukrainian Catechism is not a local catechism, it is an Eastern Catechism for all Ukrainian Catholics everywhere. The CCC enjoins Roman Bishops to make local versions, as in Canadian adaptation, US adaptation, Japanese adaptation. Its really two different things.

Well not in the local sense as in region…but rather one for the particular sui juris Church.

 

[Bookcat]

I feel uncomfortable with BookCat’s insistence that “it MUST be this way,”

You RCs in this thread who are being hardline about faiths you don’t even live: You realize that this is extremely off-putting to your Eastern compatriots, and any others who are not Latins, right? I’m not saying that you shouldn’t post the truth as you see it, but constantly referring back to the CCC (the Ukrainians have their own Catechism), the Magisterium, etc. reads as “We don’t care about your Eastern tradition; here is what you need to believe to be really Catholic.” I don’t think that’s even what the Latin Popes have been saying for the past 50 years or so. So who’s really misrepresenting what?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is for the entire Catholic Church East and West (and it was worked on by Bishops and scholars of both West and East). It is the fruit of the Second Vatican Council.

The Ukrainian Catechism and other Catechisms are for the particular Church etc in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They are not going to conflict in areas of Doctrine --but will wonderfully make more manifest the particular traditions etc of the particular catholic Church they are come from.

The Magisterium involves both the Eastern and Western Bishops and Patriarchs --headed by the Successor of Peter.

In absolutely no way are we to ever say “We don’t care about your Eastern tradition; here is what you need to believe to be really Catholic.” That is not the attitude. (and on my part --apologies to any whom I have been too matter of fact (or offended in some way) etc etc with when I ought perhaps have found better ways to say the same thing.

But the question at hand of this tread is not – what do some Eastern Orthodox say about this question (and there are various views there it seems–even more strict) but rather it was a question regarding the Catholic Church. In particular those of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Hence the answers given from sources from the Catholic Church for the whole Church and from Eastern sources for Eastern Catholic Churches (which of course are not divergent answers here).

It is very important that the various Eastern Catholic Churches --be what who they are. But it is also important not that when there is question that is answered the same in all the Catholic Churches (such as this one) that there are not interjected claims of “that is just the Latin answer or the Latin way of thinking etc” Could an answer given by an Eastern Catholic Patriarch --differ from that given by an Eastern Orthodox Patriarch on a particular matter? Yes. Is such a “Latinization” no not per se. (this last part is not per se directed at your posts there…)

Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs can differ from one another on a particular question --and yet not depart in doing so from their particular traditions.

 

[Peter_J]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is for the entire Catholic Church East and West (and it was worked on by Bishops and scholars of both West and East). It is the fruit of the Second Vatican Council.

The Ukrainian Catechism and other Catechisms are for the particular Church etc in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They are not going to conflict in areas of Doctrine --but will wonderfully make more manifest the particular traditions etc of the particular catholic Church they are come from.

The Magisterium involves both the Eastern and Western Bishops and Patriarchs --headed by the Successor of Peter.

Bookcat, I think that most of what you are saying in this post is right. But you don’t account for the fact that there hasn’t been a “Latin Catechism” for that particular Church in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Surely you would expect such a thing to exist, given your view of the CCC?

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat, I think that most of what you are saying in this post is right. But you don’t account for the fact that there hasn’t been a “Latin Catechism” for that particular Church in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Surely you would expect such a thing to exist, given your view of the CCC?

Now is much of what is said in the Catechism of the Catholic Church-- in the language of “Latin” – yes much. So yes it is more readily used by itself in the Roman dioceses etc–what was intended is that other ones could created from it for the local Churches etc.

Here in the USA we have the one from the United States Bishops Conference.

I saw one Ukrainian Church site that had the Catechism of the Catholic Church for sale (as a book one ought to have)…and in addition to it the new Ukrainian Catechism.

And will you find Eastern Catholic Priests and Bishops and Patriarchs quoting from the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Yes.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat,

Read for example Pope Benedict XVI’s letter for the Year of Faith that is coming up for the entire Catholic Church.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20111011_porta-fidei_en.html

To give an example from it:

“It is in this sense that that the Year of Faith will have to see a concerted effort to rediscover and study the fundamental content of the faith that receives its systematic and organic synthesis in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Here, in fact, we see the wealth of teaching that the Church has received, safeguarded and proposed in her two thousand years of history. From Sacred Scripture to the Fathers of the Church, from theological masters to the saints across the centuries, the Catechism provides a permanent record of the many ways in which the Church has meditated on the faith and made progress in doctrine so as to offer certitude to believers in their lives of faith.”

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Yes, the canons are there, but as I finally found out from ByzCathCantor posting, in another thread, the CCC is meant for bishops.

To be specific, the CCC is there for the benefit of the faithful, but the original unabridged version was indeed primarily intended for reference of the episcopate, as is clearly noted in the preface (Blessed JPII’s Apostolic Letter).

I therefore strongly urge my Venerable Brothers in the Episcopate, for whom the Catechism is primarily intended, to take the excellent opportunity afforded by the promulgation of this Latin edition to intensify their efforts to disseminate the text more widely and to ensure that it is well received as an outstanding gift for the communities entrusted to them, which will thus be able to rediscover the inexhaustible riches of the faith.

 

[lssanjose]

To be specific, the CCC is there for the benefit of the faithful, but the original unabridged version was indeed primarily intended for reference of the episcopate, as is clearly noted in the preface (Blessed JPII’s Apostolic Letter).

Duly noted, brother. I hope San Diego treated you well!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Duly noted, brother. I hope San Diego treated you well!

Very well, indeed! I have to say it was truly inspiring to see gold onion domes set against a semi-arid landscape

 

[Melchior_1]

Dumb question:

If Eastern Catholics are “Orthodox + Pope”, wouldn’t that mean there are zero theological differences between the Orthodox and Rome? And that the only thing separating from a union is the primacy of the Chair of Peter?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

If Eastern Catholics are “Orthodox + Pope”, wouldn’t that mean there are zero theological differences between the Orthodox and Rome? And that the only thing separating from a union is the primacy of the Chair of Peter?

No question is dumb, asked honestly and sincerely in the quest of knowledge.

The matter is complicated. For example, if you were to study the Union of Brest which brought many faithful of modern day Ukraine into Communion, you will see specific mention of theological issues - purgatory comes to mind. So, differences were acknowledged (yet basically set aside) as part of the union agreement.

This is one of several key reasons why current day Orthodox, and now the Catholic Church itself, rejects uniatism as a model for reunion.

In current context, however, leaders of the Catholic Churches sui juris would likely tell you that theological differences have been studied and largely reconciled, and that Eastern Catholics are permitted to have a differing perspective so long as it does not contradict Catholic dogmatic and doctrinal teaching. A reasonable compromise and result permitting co-existence of theological perspectives, yet one could also appreciate the Orthodox perspective and insistence on common expressions of True Faith.

Many are awaiting the publication of the English edition of the UGCC’s Catechism later this year, as it may provide a basis for understanding how some (but likely not all) such significant differences have been reconciled.

 

[Aramis]

Dumb question:

If Eastern Catholics are “Orthodox + Pope”, wouldn’t that mean there are zero theological differences between the Orthodox and Rome? And that the only thing separating from a union is the primacy of the Chair of Peter?

The required beliefs - the dogma - of the Catholics are, with two exceptions, held by the Orthodox. (Papal infalibility, and the immaculate conception are the two.) Tho’ a few as doctrine by the EO, rather than Dogmas.
the Doctrines are those things which must be taught within a particular church. For the most part, all the doctrines held by the Orthodox are compatible with the Catholic Communion, and are held by their Catholic counterparts - except those having to do with the papacy.

Theology is all the body of teachings that explain the other two - and theology isn’t unified in any particular church above a single bishop’s level - and often, not even then. Theology ranges from which nuanced interpretation of Doctrine and Dogma to use, through wild speculation by theologians about maters outside doctrine and dogma.

Byzantine Theosis and Roman Purgation by flame are both theologumenia of the Dogma of Purgatory… different and incompatible on their face… but supporting the sae requisite belief: that purification continues after death, and the prayers of the living somehow help those experiencing it.

 

[aeposada89]

Yeah…but it’s primarily a Latin document. If it weren’t, Ukranian Catholics would have no reason to publish their own catechism.

See this very interesting thread for more information: What Catechism is used in the EC churches?

See BookCat’s previous comment, but I think that may be a good way to look at it…

The CCC is an “overall” type of document–designed as a “go-to” from which the various regional Catechisms draw the “roots,” and expound in detail in a way that is most salient to the various regions.

At least, that’s my take on it. I’ve never quite been clear on the status of the CCC for Eastern Catholics (as far as doctrinal authority goes)–hence my little “journey” over to the forum

 

[aeposada89]

By the way, any comments I make regarding our brothers of the Eastern Catholic Churches (and Orthodox, as well–praying for reunion!), I intend to be understood as curious, done in charity, and questioning for understanding;

I just wanted to put that out there now, as I know that sometimes, Latin Catholics treat Eastern Catholics as somehow “less Catholic,” a la John Ireland.

My intention is precisely the opposite of that; to learn, that I may the better appreciate