Does the Catholic Church permit women to wear chasubles?

[Pariah_Pirana]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Oh that is too funny!
Like they all belong to the same club!

How about when some women dress all in white with a huge scarf that looks suspiciously like a priest’s stole?

 

[QUICUMQUE_VULT]

ByzCath:

Female EM? Or do you mean EMHC?

Only priests and deacons are Eucharistic Ministers and by definition they are male.

Yeah,yeah,yeah,…yada,yada,yada
Just keep repeating to yourself,(and anyone else you encounter)
“by definition they are Male” “by definition they are Male!”

It wont make aahhny difference. (you might even start believing it!)
And then one day, You walk into A Western rite mass. And there on the Altar you spot them! Overweight Females dressed in street clothes, of the same Liturgical color as the Priest (all to common in my area) handing out Hosts like Neco wafers. Or gesticulating wildly (think jazz hands) as they lead the people in some insipid protestant hymn,…if it waks like A Duck!

“by definition they are Male!” “by definition they are Male!” “by definition they are Male!”

                    The Athanasian Creed

Quicumque vult salvus esse*Ante omnia opus est,ut teneat Catholicam fidem.

Whoever wishes to be saved*Must before all else adhere to the Catholic Faith

 

[Steve_Green]

Who do you think the Patriarch of the New American Church will be ?

 

[SHJ-BVM]

QUICUMQUE VULT:

I see in many Parishes the Female EM are starting to wear slacks,and dresses of the same liturgical color, as the Priests vestments. ie purple during Lent and Advent, Red on Good Friday. …Looks ridiculous
DOCE ME DOMINE VIAS TUAS!

Why would you say that they look ridiculous?

I am assuming they are in “street clothes”, but dressed in the same colors as “that of the day of celebration”.

I myself, as a reader (seven days a week) try my best to dress in the proper liturgical color. I take the time to see if it will be a Holy Day, Memorial Mass, etc. and what the color of the day should be. I then try to wear something that is the color of, or close to, that of the priest. I make sure I have read the readings (previous to the Mass), and as much as possible, understand what it is that I am reading. If there is something I don’t understand, and time permits, I ask Father to explain it to me so my own confusion doesn’t interfere with the reading.

I’m not saying that we (readers, EMHC, etc) are ‘holier than thou’, just that maybe we take the extra time to know what and why we are wearing and reading certain things at special times of the year(and even during ‘ordinary time’)

I am not an EM (and I HOPE you mean to be shortening the term of extraordinary ministers of holy communion (EMHC), not EM (Eucharistic Minister).

Netmil(name removed by moderator),

I would NEVER presume myself to be “part of the club”. BUT, I can still try to impart, through dressing in the same colors as that of the priest/day, some reverence back into theMass. Although I am (wanted to capitalize the word “am”, but realized how pretentious that would be) hoping to join a third order, I KNOW my place in the church. I will NEVER be a priest, nor want to be. But, I do hope to bring faith and reverence back to Mother Church.

To all that have read this post so far, unless it’s -40* (and it DOES get that cold here, I NEVER wear pants…dress or skirt…and I DO wear a veil!

 

[QUICUMQUE_VULT]

SHJ-BVM:

Why would you say that they look ridiculous?

I am assuming they are in “street clothes”, but dressed in the same colors as “that of the day of celebration”.

I myself, as a reader (seven days a week) try my best to dress in the proper liturgical color. I take the time to see if it will be a Holy Day, Memorial Mass, etc. and what the color of the day should be. I then try to wear something that is the color of, or close to, that of the priest. I make sure I have read the readings (previous to the Mass), and as much as possible, understand what it is that I am reading. If there is something I don’t understand, and time permits, I ask Father to explain it to me so my own confusion doesn’t interfere with the reading.

I’m not saying that we (readers, EMHC, etc) are ‘holier than thou’, just that maybe we take the extra time to know what and why we are wearing and reading certain things at special times of the year(and even during ‘ordinary time’)

I am not an EM (and I HOPE you mean to be shortening the term of extraordinary ministers of holy communion (EMHC), not EM (Eucharistic Minister).

Netmil(name removed by moderator),

I would NEVER presume myself to be “part of the club”. BUT, I can still try to impart, through dressing in the same colors as that of the priest/day, some reverence back into theMass. Although I am (wanted to capitalize the word “am”, but realized how pretentious that would be) hoping to join a third order, I KNOW my place in the church. I will NEVER be a priest, nor want to be. But, I do hope to bring faith and reverence back to Mother Church.

To all that have read this post so far, unless it’s -40* (and it DOES get that cold here, I NEVER wear pants…dress or skirt…and I DO wear a veil!

thank you for your response,
it looks ridiculous because it seems a conscious effort, to emulate a priestly function.
I respect the fact that you want to be reverent, A laudable sentiment, in todays sad society.
But IMHO the fact that you deliberately choose liturgical colors , proper to the days celebration, shows the line between clerics and lay is being erased. The choice of colors is the priests alone, under the guidance of the norms and rubrics set forth by Holy Mother Church, for the proper celebration of Mass.
That is not a concern of the laity, Just dress nicely and do your best. remember a picture is worth a thousand words.
Please do not send the wrong picture
As for EM EMHC those are “nonrelevant terms” to me.
I do not agree with any of them call them what you will, EM,EMHC,EMDF, EMJKZ, EMABCDEFG, They all mean the same thing. FFP Future female Priests.
Thanks be to God, I only have to endure these abuses, on certain Sundays, when because of work I miss the Indult mass, and am forced to attend some neighboring parishto fulfill my obligation
God Bless

 

[SHJ-BVM]

QUICUMQUE VULT:

thank you for your response,
it looks ridiculous because it seems a conscious effort, to emulate a priestly function.
I respect the fact that you want to be reverent, A laudable sentiment, in todays sad society.
But IMHO the fact that you deliberately choose liturgical colors , proper to the days celebration, shows the line between clerics and lay is being erased. The choice of colors is the priests alone, under the guidance of the norms and rubrics set forth by Holy Mother Church, for the proper celebration of Mass.
That is not a concern of the laity, Just dress nicely and do your best. remember a picture is worth a thousand words.
Please do not send the wrong picture
God Bless

QUICUMQUE VULT,

In a certain sense, it is a CONCIOUS effort, but NOT in the way you seem to be thinking. As I said, I try to wear the color of the day. Most churchgoers (unfortunately) don’t even seem to realize when there are feast days, solemnities (or even when it’s 'ordinary time) etc. And most priests don’t even seem to mention the fact when it’s a solemnity etc. Hopefully/maybe by dressing in the same colors as the priest, they laity may see/spot that.​

QUICUMQUE VULT" The choice of colors is the priests alone, under the guidance of the norms and rubrics set forth by Holy Mother Church, for the proper celebration of Mass."​

Tomorrow is the Memorial of St. Aloysius Gonzaga…priestly vestments are to be white…unfortunately most missals (and those from the USCCB also show it to be the readings for ‘ordinary time’(green)… I will wear a light blue/white checked shirt with a white skirt. I also where the same outfit most Saturdays because where I attend daily Mass is a shrine dedicated to our Holy Mother (she’s usually painted as wearing blue and white) and Saturdays are dedicated to Mary. Am I trying to be the holy mother? NO!!! BUT I DO try to emulate her holiness (although I know I will never even come close).

As you said, a picture is worth a thousand words!!!

P.S.I always dress nicely, at least I hope I do.

 

[QUICUMQUE_VULT]

SHJ-BVM:

QUICUMQUE VULT,

In a certain sense, it is a CONCIOUS effort, but NOT in the way you seem to be thinking. As I said, I try to wear the color of the day. Most churchgoers (unfortunately) don’t even seem to realize when there are feast days, solemnities (or even when it’s 'ordinary time) etc. And most priests don’t even seem to mention the fact when it’s a solemnity etc. Hopefully/maybe by dressing in the same colors as the priest, they laity may see/spot that.​

QUICUMQUE VULT" The choice of colors is the priests alone, under the guidance of the norms and rubrics set forth by Holy Mother Church, for the proper celebration of Mass."​

Tomorrow is the Memorial of St. Aloysius Gonzaga…priestly vestments are to be white…unfortunately most missals (and those from the USCCB also show it to be the readings for ‘ordinary time’(green)… I will wear a light blue/white checked shirt with a white skirt. I also where the same outfit most Saturdays because where I attend daily Mass is a shrine dedicated to our Holy Mother (she’s usually painted as wearing blue and white) and Saturdays are dedicated to Mary. Am I trying to be the holy mother? NO!!! BUT I DO try to emulate her holiness (although I know I will never even come close).

As you said, a picture is worth a thousand words!!!

P.S.I always dress nicely, at least I hope I do.

Well on this one we will agree to ,disagree.
I still think that women should wear nice clothes , if they are reading, and not try to look like Priest’s by wearing the liturgical color of the day.
On the other hand , you think that wearing the proper color as you read (even though you are A laywomen) makes the Mass more reverent.
Even though I am A layman, I ,(If I were A reader) would never presume to Dress in clothes reflecting the days color.
It would not seem right.
I think you have the highest of motives, and for that I say “God Bless You”
I still think it sends the wrong picture.
However to your credit the way you described your clothes, sounded very nice, and not at all like what I have seen.
The Eucharistic Ministeresses, and Lectoresses, I have seen were dressed in clothes of a solid color. A very deliberate effort on their part.
Anyway God Bless you for your faithfulness to the Church, and your Vocation to the third order.

Quicumque vult

 

[InnocentIII]

Deacon Ed:

Since this is my diocese I know who is being discussed. She wears an alb. It’s cream colored and very full, but it’s an alb. She does not wear a chasuble and Bishop Brown would never allow such a thing. She does serve as an MC (Master of Ceremonies) and, in that role, would process in in front of the bishop and after any concelebrating priests since she would be the one to remove his miter and take his crozier. Since the current secretary to the bishop who normally functions as his MC is becoming the rector of the new cathedral parish in July, I would expect to see more of her rather than less.

Deacon Ed

This seems to me typical of the deviousness of many dissenting Catholics - clerical and lay.

It is clear from the original post that this garment “looks” like a chasuble. I have seen many priests in albs and many different types of chasuble - and I know there are some albs that are designed to appear like chasubles and are in fact used by some priests for that purpose (they often have a stole attached to it as an all in one) and they very much resemble the picture posted.

First - regardless of what function this woman is performing it is wrong for her to be in the sanctuary. The Vatican has made it clear that Altar Girls are not permitted - how then can the Bishop justify having a female MC in the sanctuary.

Second - I am sure that this choice of an alb “very full” is not just a random choice. If it looks like a chasuble it was clearly meant to do so. It is also very convenient. It looks like a chasuble, it is worn in the sanctuary - but if any nitpicking conservative gets too vocal the Bishop can always deny that it is a chasuble. And so it begins…

I apologise to all forum members if this sounds bitter or uncharitable but frankly I have seen to much of this sort of underhanded change. The whole Church has suffered from this sneaky introduction of new and illicit acts while proclaiming po-faced that the teachings of the Church aren’t r.e.a.l.l.y being changed till everyone gets so used to it they don’t even raise an eyebrow when the alb becomes a real chasuble.

 

[InnocentIII]

SHJ-BVM:

Why would you say that they look ridiculous?

I am assuming they are in “street clothes”, but dressed in the same colors as “that of the day of celebration”.

I myself, as a reader (seven days a week) try my best to dress in the proper liturgical color. I take the time to see if it will be a Holy Day, Memorial Mass, etc. and what the color of the day should be. I then try to wear something that is the color of, or close to, that of the priest. I make sure I have read the readings (previous to the Mass), and as much as possible, understand what it is that I am reading. If there is something I don’t understand, and time permits, I ask Father to explain it to me so my own confusion doesn’t interfere with the reading.

I’m not saying that we (readers, EMHC, etc) are ‘holier than thou’, just that maybe we take the extra time to know what and why we are wearing and reading certain things at special times of the year(and even during ‘ordinary time’)

I am not an EM (and I HOPE you mean to be shortening the term of extraordinary ministers of holy communion (EMHC), not EM (Eucharistic Minister).

Netmil(name removed by moderator),

I would NEVER presume myself to be “part of the club”. BUT, I can still try to impart, through dressing in the same colors as that of the priest/day, some reverence back into theMass. Although I am (wanted to capitalize the word “am”, but realized how pretentious that would be) hoping to join a third order, I KNOW my place in the church. I will NEVER be a priest, nor want to be. But, I do hope to bring faith and reverence back to Mother Church.

To all that have read this post so far, unless it’s -40* (and it DOES get that cold here, I NEVER wear pants…dress or skirt…and I DO wear a veil!

Dear Patricia

I appreciate your attempts to add reverence to the Mass. Having suffered from poor readers over many years I have almost reached the stage of wanting to go back to having the priest or a deacon do all the readings. It is nice to see someone try.

However, I am concerned by this desire to wear the “colours of the season”. The use of coloured materials was always restricted to the mass vestments of the priest, certain vestments worn by the bishops, the dalmatic of the deacons, the frontals of the altar and the burse and veil when they were used (and I wish they were brought back). No other participant such as altar boys, acolytes, choir members wore coloured clothing. It seems to me that by wearing “seasonal colours” you are unwittingly elevating yourself to a status comparable with the ordained ministers.

It intrigues me that after the introduction of lay involvement so many lay people want to adopt some form of liturgical dress thus separating themselves from the people they supposedly represent.

While I am not suggesting so in your case Patricia I fear that many “lay participants” are just clerics manque hoping to get included in the sanctuary elite.

 

[InnocentIII]

SHJ-BVM:

Tomorrow is the Memorial of St. Aloysius Gonzaga…priestly vestments are to be white…unfortunately most missals (and those from the USCCB also show it to be the readings for ‘ordinary time’(green)…

Actually a Memorial has no effect on the colour proper for the day. Only a Solemnity and or a Feast changes the colour unless the Memorial is also a patron of the church or chapel where the mass is taking place. Thus you would be wrong to choose to where white on this day and the priest would be correct in wearing green.

 

[tee_eff_em]

InnocentIII:

Actually a Memorial has no effect on the colour proper for the day. Only a Solemnity and or a Feast changes the colour unless the Memorial is also a patron of the church or chapel where the mass is taking place. Thus you would be wrong to choose to where white on this day and the priest would be correct in wearing green.

Actually as I understand it, an obligatory Memorial, such as St Aloysius, does affect the color of the day (an optional Memorial, such as yesterday’s SS John Fisher and Thomas More, need not, even if it is celebrated in the prayers of the liturgy). cf. the USCCB Liturgical Calendar 2005
(Perhaps these celebrations are ranked differently in Australia?)

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

And I see nothing wrong with dressing with an eye toward liturgical colors.

When I am a reader, I often choose my tie to be appropriate to the celebration – Why should I not choose one in the color of the day? Sometimes I choose my clothes such even when I only expect to remain in the congregation and have no other liturgical role.

If anything seems stranger than looking to the calendar to see what color to wear, it would be to look at the calendar in order to eliminate one color from the spectrum!?

Liturgical Eye for the Secular Guy,
tee

 

[InnocentIII]

tee_eff_em:

Actually as I understand it, an obligatory Memorial, such as St Aloysius, does affect the color of the day (an optional Memorial, such as yesterday’s SS John Fisher and Thomas More, need not, even if it is celebrated in the prayers of the liturgy). cf. the USCCB Liturgical Calendar 2005
(Perhaps these celebrations are ranked differently in Australia?)

tee

I stand corrected Tee We have very few mandatory memorials here so it does not happen very often. I see the US has many more mandatory memorials than us. (We tend to shift all feasts to the nearest Sunday - a shocking practice but one that matches our political habit of moving all public holidays to a Monday so we can have a long weekend.