Does the initial burst of faith require works to NOT be dead?

  • Thread starter Thread starter babylonfalling
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

babylonfalling

Guest
We know that faith without works is dead but if a faith is dead, there is in implication that it was once alive. I don’t believe James was talking about dead in the sense of a stone or a butter knife or anything else that was never alive. We don’t use the word dead that way and I don’t think James was using it that way either. When we say something is dead, it’s normally something that used to be alive.

That would mean a faith which is now dead because of zero works was once alive despite zero works. If that’s the case, then for a period of time, we have a case of living faith with zero works. From that perspective, works appears to be something which sustains a faith that initially started out with no works at all. Works becomes a type of fuel which (among other things) keeps the faith from dying. Works are still necessary but the first burst of living faith can occur without works.
 
babylonfalling said:
We know that faith without works is dead but if a faith is dead, there is in implication that it was once alive. I don’t believe James was talking about dead in the sense of a stone or a butter knife or anything else that was never alive. We don’t use the word dead that way and I don’t think James was using it that way either. When we say something is dead, it’s normally something that used to be alive.

That would mean a faith which is now dead because of zero works was once alive despite zero works. If that’s the case, then for a period of time, we have a case of living faith with zero works. From that perspective, works appears to be something which sustains a faith that initially started out with no works at all. Works becomes a type of fuel which (among other things) keeps the faith from dying. Works are still necessary but the first burst of living faith can occur without works.
Click to expand...
Maybe the best way to look at it is to know that faith must lead on to the other virtues, primarily to love. Faith, by itself, does not make us just, while love does, and love, by its nature, acts. “The only thing that counts is faith working through love”. Gal 5:6
 
fhansen said:
Maybe the best way to look at it is to know that faith must lead on to the other virtues, primarily to love. Faith, by itself, does not make us just, while love does, and love, by its nature, acts. “The only thing that counts is faith working through love”. Gal 5:6
Click to expand...
That sounds like a NO, which I agree with.
But without forthcoming works, that persons faith is doomed to death…per James.
 
babylonfalling said:
That sounds like a NO, which I agree with.
But without forthcoming works, that persons faith is doomed to death…per James.
Click to expand...
Yep, without love we are dead. And love is simply the right and proper motivator for all obedience, including works. Love wants to work. I like a related statement, by St Basil of Cesarea:

**If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children. **
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top