Does the soul have a sense of "self?"

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Some food for spiritual thought:

“Just as a blind man is unable to form any idea about colors, or a deaf person to fathom what it means to hear sounds… so the body cannot comprehend the delights of the soul… For we live in a material world, and the only kind of pleasure we can understand is that experienced through our body. But the joys of the spirit are everlasting and ceaseless. There is no resemblance of any kind between the enjoyments of the soul and those of the body.”
–Maimonides

I do not believe that the soul has a sense of self, but is always thirsting for God, its source. I believe that the body and soul are intrinsically related in this life and in the World-to-Come, but at some point I believe our soul (or a part of our soul) will eventually be united with God.
 
PSALM 42

1 For the leader. A maskil of the Korahites.

2 As the deer longs for streams of water,
so my soul longs for you, O God.

3 My soul thirsts for God, the living God.
When can I enter and see the face of God?

4 My tears have been my bread day and night,
as they ask me every day, “Where is your God?”

5 Those times I recall
as I pour out my soul,
When I would cross over to the shrine of the Mighty One,
to the house of God,
Amid loud cries of thanksgiving,
with the multitude keeping festival.

6 Why are you downcast, my soul;
why do you groan within me?
Wait for God, for I shall again praise him,
my savior and my God.

7 My soul is downcast within me;
therefore I remember you
From the land of the Jordan and Hermon,
from Mount Mizar,

8 Deep calls to deep
in the roar of your torrents,
and all your waves and breakers
sweep over me.

9 By day may the LORD send his mercy,
and by night may his righteousness be with me!
I will pray to the God of my life,

10 I will say to God, my rock:
“Why do you forget me?
Why must I go about mourning
with the enemy oppressing me?”

11 It shatters my bones, when my adversaries reproach me,
when they say to me every day: “Where is your God?”

12 Why are you downcast, my soul,
why do you groan within me?
Wait for God, for I shall again praise him,
my savior and my God.
 
I do not believe that the soul has a sense of self,
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You mean the body? Could be an accident of our substance, not visa versa. They were on the path to immortality in the garden, Much more advanced to even qualify by science or morality. But as far as how you are in touch with your body from a spiritual level needs elaboration. Your body is not conscious. You are conscious of it. The fact we have a body is of importance none the less as it indicates a path to truth if nothing else.
 
GaryTaylor said:
You mean the body? Could be an accident of our substance, not visa versa. They were on the path to immortality in the garden, Much more advanced to even qualify by science or morality. But as far as how you are in touch with your body from a spiritual level needs elaboration. Your body is not conscious. You are conscious of it. The fact we have a body is of importance none the less as it indicates a path to truth if nothing else.
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I’m implying that the soul can be separated from the body at some point and that the soul will not possess a self. Secondarily, I’m interested in what is producing sense of self?.
 
Selfhood derives from the mind, which is a product or dimension of the soul.

If the soul is made to exist in a “naked” state, it would perceive as being the soul of a former body, which is true.

Union with God should IMNAAHO be imaged as two beings in total intimacy; not as a drop of ink vanishing into the ocean.

ICXC NIKA
 
Robert_Sock said:
I’m implying that the soul can be separated from the body at some point and that the soul will not possess a self. Secondarily, I’m interested in what is producing sense of self?.
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I agree, in a very real way the body and soul are disconnected, there’s a disconnect from body and consciousness. Its also responsible for a good deal of mental heath issues in excess of OCD.
 
GaryTaylor said:
I agree, in a very real way the body and soul are disconnected, there’s a disconnect from body and consciousness. Its also responsible for a good deal of mental heath issues in excess of OCD.
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Certainly we are not fully conscious of our bodies; else medical testing would not be needed.

But the disconnect between mind and body is necessitated, for the most part, by death.

ICXC NIKA.
 
I don’t think it could, because without a body (mortal or perfected) there would be no storage of memories, and without the storage of memories, there would be no capacity to form a mental “set” of our various prior thoughts.

It would be like getting total amnesia every split second.
 
Neoplatonist said:
I don’t think it could, because without a body (mortal or perfected) there would be no storage of memories, and without the storage of memories, there would be no capacity to form a mental “set” of our various prior thoughts.

It would be like getting total amnesia every split second.
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Whether memory is a function of the soul is a matter of theological dispute.

I know that Aquinas held that it was not, but that is not infallible doctrine.

Rigorously, no intellect or will is possible without the head, either.

ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
Whether memory is a function of the soul is a matter of theological dispute.

I know that Aquinas held that it was not, but that is not infallible doctrine.

Rigorously, no intellect or will is possible without the head, either.

ICXC NIKA.
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Perhaps that is why it would be as if we sleep until the resurrection. Surely those who have passed away had their soul separated before the end of time, right?
 
GEddie said:
Whether memory is a function of the soul is a matter of theological dispute.

I know that Aquinas held that it was not, but that is not infallible doctrine.

Rigorously, no intellect or will is possible without the head, either.

ICXC NIKA.
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All of which are just theories. You really don’t know what being a disembodied spirit will be like.
 
My understanding (and it could be wrong)
is that the body and soul separate at death only
to be united at a later date.
but when a soul is in Purgatory (without the body)
The soul must have a sense of self, otherwise it would think
itself worthy and try to enter heaven.
But of their own will, the souls choose to stay in purgatory
until they know they are pure and free of stain.

That to me indicates that the soul has a
sense of self.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Some food for spiritual thought:

“Just as a blind man is unable to form any idea about colors, or a deaf person to fathom what it means to hear sounds… so the body cannot comprehend the delights of the soul… For we live in a material world, and the only kind of pleasure we can understand is that experienced through our body. But the joys of the spirit are everlasting and ceaseless. There is no resemblance of any kind between the enjoyments of the soul and those of the body.”
–Maimonides

I do not believe that the soul has a sense of self, but is always thirsting for God, its source. I believe that the body and soul are intrinsically related in this life and in the World-to-Come, but at some point I believe our soul (or a part of our soul) will eventually be united with God.
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Just keep in mind that a person’s soul isn’t really distinct from “himself.” In reality, a person is one and whole, soul and body. All of him (body included) will be united to God in Heaven.

But Maimonies’ quote is not necessarily wrong, if understood correctly. There are certain actions (e.g., knowledge and love) that depend directly on the soul. These are entirely beyond the body’s capacity.
 
lmelahn said:
Just keep in mind that a person’s soul isn’t really distinct from “himself.” In reality, a person is one and whole, soul and body. All of him (body included) will be united to God in Heaven.

But Maimonies’ quote is not necessarily wrong, if understood correctly. There are certain actions (e.g., knowledge and love) that depend directly on the soul. These are entirely beyond the body’s capacity.
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But require the body’s services for acquisition and expression, respectively.

ICXC NIKA.
 
The senses of self differentiate from the pre-post fall. Surely this self is a secondary intention of God. He never intended for man to fall, the correction is a secondary intention. Its clouded with ego.
“It takes great courage to abandon ones self, to give up “I” and “mine”: but death happens only once, and what dies is really nothing at all.”
- anonymous
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blase6 said:
Unproven assumption.
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Only if one is blinded by one’s love of philosophy.

Try acquiring knowledge while bound, blindfolded and ear- and nose plugged. You won’t be
able to.

Try expressing love for someone while using no part of your body: no arms to hold, no hands to caress, no voice to speak, no eyes to rest on them. It’s nonsensical.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Only if one is blinded by one’s love of philosophy.

Try acquiring knowledge while bound, blindfolded and ear- and node plugged. You won’t be
able to.

Try expressing love for someone while using no part of your body: no arms to hold, no hands to caress, no voice to speak, no eyes to rest on them. It’s nonsensical.

ICXC NIKA
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God can impart great amounts of knowledge to us at any time, without using the five senses.

I am He Who in one moment so enlightens the humble mind that it comprehends more of eternal truth than could be learned by ten years in the schools. I teach without noise of words or clash of opinions, without ambition for honor or confusion of argument.
-IOC
 
Robert_Sock said:
God can impart great amounts of knowledge to us at any time, without using the five senses.

I am He Who in one moment so enlightens the humble mind that it comprehends more of eternal truth than could be learned by ten years in the schools. I teach without noise of words or clash of opinions, without ambition for honor or confusion of argument.
-IOC
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IOC?

And even conceding your point, that knowledge requires a head to reside in.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
IOC?

And even conceding your point, that knowledge requires a head to reside in.

ICXC NIKA
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If that is correct angels know nothing and experience nothing. But that is quite difficult to believe.
 
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