Does your parish use still patens? If not, where do the particles go?

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“Christ is present in every Particle of the consecrated Host and of the consecrated wine, when separated from the rest.”
  • Council of Florence DB 698. CT 717
“If anyone denies that the Venerable Sacrament of the Eucharist that Christ is present under every part of each Species when separated, let him be anathema.”
  • Council of Trent DB 885 CT 730
“Whatever procedure is adopted (of receiving communion), care must be taken not to allow particles of the eucharistic bread to fall or be scattered…On the part of both the minister and the recipient, whenever the host is placed in the hand of a communicant there must be careful concern and caution, especially about particles that might fall from the hosts.”
  • SACRED CONGREGATION FOR DIVINE WORSHIP, Letter “En reponse a la demande,” to presidents of those conferences of bishops petitioning the indult for communion in the hand, 29 May 1969: AAS 61 (1969) 546-547; Not 5 (1969) 351-353.
 
The hosts used in our parish (and in all of the parishes in our city, in my experience) are hard and dry, like styrofoam pieces, and they have some kind of shiny coating that keeps them intact. They don’t seem to have crumbs or particles at all, ever, even when they break or when someone drops one (which I’ve only seen once). There are no crumbs or flakes in the container bottoms–these hosts seem pretty indestructible. (Maybe the reason they are used in our diocese is to prevent crumbling and desecration of the Lord.)

I have seen other hosts in other cities that are dry and crumbly, and I can certainly see your point about patens, although I think that unless the paten was correctly used, the crumbs could still drop to the ground.
 
Cat said:
The hosts used in our parish (and in all of the parishes in our city, in my experience) are hard and dry, like styrofoam pieces, and they have some kind of shiny coating that keeps them intact. They don’t seem to have crumbs or particles at all, ever, even when they break or when someone drops one (which I’ve only seen once). There are no crumbs or flakes in the container bottoms–these hosts seem pretty indestructible. (Maybe the reason they are used in our diocese is to prevent crumbling and desecration of the Lord.)

I have seen other hosts in other cities that are dry and crumbly, and I can certainly see your point about patens, although I think that unless the paten was correctly used, the crumbs could still drop to the ground.
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That shine is usually wheat starch… extracted by boiling wheat flour. Its use is a stretch, since for the unleavened hosts only wheat and water may be used. (The Eastern Catholics use wheat, yeast, and water; a few add salt.)
 
Yes, my parish uses patens. I don’t like the idea of not using them, personally…
 
No. My parish does not use patens and has not for many years.
Since almost all receive in the hand anyway and lay “Eucharistic Ministers” are used at every Mass or “Communion Service”, only God knows what happens to any crumbs or particles which might happen to break off.
 
Cat said:
The hosts used in our parish (and in all of the parishes in our city, in my experience) are hard and dry, like styrofoam pieces, and they have some kind of shiny coating that keeps them intact. They don’t seem to have crumbs or particles at all, ever,
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Not so. One only needs to go to a coin show sometime in his life and see the value of coins drop dramatically as people inadvertently or adverently “rub” coins. One such rub or touch can disfigure a valuable coin. The ones buying these coins can probably tell how many people have even handled it. And coins as you know are “shiny” objects. Or at least they were once. 🙂

Now if people take such high precautions against handling expensive coins, I would think even more precaution should taken while receiving the Body and Blood of Christ from a priest. As they say in the numismatic coin world, better not to even touch it at all.
 
We still use the patens in my parish, and the altarboys are trained to use them. (However, my sons admit that it’s rather frustrating when someone puts their hands out to receive in the hand after they’ve put the paten under the chin–they each wish people would make their intentions clear before the altarboy makes a move with the paten.)
 
We use patens, held by the Altar Servers. Particles are rare, but, DS did catch falling hosts a couple of times!
 
Lepanto said:
“Christ is present in every Particle of the consecrated Host and of the consecrated wine, when separated from the rest.”
  • Council of Florence DB 698. CT 717
“If anyone denies that the Venerable Sacrament of the Eucharist that Christ is present under every part of each Species when separated, let him be anathema.”
  • Council of Trent DB 885 CT 730
“Whatever procedure is adopted (of receiving communion), care must be taken not to allow particles of the eucharistic bread to fall or be scattered…On the part of both the minister and the recipient, whenever the host is placed in the hand of a communicant there must be careful concern and caution, especially about particles that might fall from the hosts.”
  • SACRED CONGREGATION FOR DIVINE WORSHIP, Letter “En reponse a la demande,” to presidents of those conferences of bishops petitioning the indult for communion in the hand, 29 May 1969: AAS 61 (1969) 546-547; Not 5 (1969) 351-353.
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My parish for some un-orthodox reason hasn’t used chalice Paten’s for the last seven years. Seems nobody in my recollection has challenged or asked the last three parish priests why they opted not to use the Paten’s. Why? (Y) is a crooked letter. Personally I would have preferred that they were in use. In the last seven years as is presently the priest would have the large host along with smaller host to be consecrated put into a ciborium on a table at the back of the church along with wine and water cruets , and brought up to the Sanctuary during the presentation of the gifts by designated lay parishioners or the ushers. To me this practice of omitting the Paten borders on liturgical abuse.
 
centurionguard said:
My parish for some un-orthodox reason hasn’t used chalice Paten’s for the last seven years. Seems nobody in my recollection has challenged or asked the last three parish priests why they opted not to use the Paten’s. Why? (Y) is a crooked letter. Personally I would have preferred that they were in use. In the last seven years as is presently the priest would have the large host along with smaller host to be consecrated put into a ciborium on a table at the back of the church along with wine and water cruets , and brought up to the Sanctuary during the presentation of the gifts by designated lay parishioners or the ushers. To me this practice of omitting the Paten borders on liturgical abuse.
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I find your post a bit difficult to understand, I’m afraid.

What is a ‘Chalice paten’? And why is an offertory procession a problem?
 
centurionguard said:
My parish for some un-orthodox reason hasn’t used chalice Paten’s for the last seven years. Seems nobody in my recollection has challenged or asked the last three parish priests why they opted not to use the Paten’s. Why? (Y) is a crooked letter. Personally I would have preferred that they were in use. In the last seven years as is presently the priest would have the large host along with smaller host to be consecrated put into a ciborium on a table at the back of the church along with wine and water cruets , and brought up to the Sanctuary during the presentation of the gifts by designated lay parishioners or the ushers. To me this practice of omitting the Paten borders on liturgical abuse.
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That pretty much describes what we do. When the people enter the chapel (it’s just a small collage chapel), there’s a large bowl with the smaller unconsecrated bread and a ciborium with the big unconsecrated bread piece. People take a piece from the big bowl (using a pair of tongs) and put it into the ciborium (it’s actually quite ingenious, because there should be just enough bread to be consecrated so that the priest isn’t guessing, and the tabernacle doesn’t get too overfilled. I admit that it probably wouldn’t work well in a larger parish though). The ciborium and the cruet of wine is then brought up during the offertory (the cruet of water is already up on the credence table).

The offertory is sound theologically though. The bread is brought to the priest who takes it, then proceeds to bless it, break it, and share it with the congregation (you should already understand the significants of that).
 
The only place I know that uses paten is my alma mater, other than that the only place and the first place I ever saw them being used was a church in the Archdiocese of Hartford, but I haven’t seen them there lately.
 
paperwight said:
I find your post a bit difficult to understand, I’m afraid.

What is a ‘Chalice paten’? And why is an offertory procession a problem?
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What is a ‘Chalice Paten’?
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images.google.ca/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=chalice+paten&oq=&gs_rfai=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=ivaoS7ekAcGclgfRx8ygDw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQsAQwAA
And why is an offertory procession a problem?
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I never said the offertory procession was a problem. In most instances during consecration the priest places the Chalice + Paten on the Corporal linen cloth that usually covers the area around the altar stone. My priest does not use the Paten with the large host typically placed on the Paten. Alternatively he places the large host inside the Ciborium with other small host to be consecrated.

My question would be is, should a priest have the option to omit using the Paten typically used with the Chalice?

My apologies for not clarifying my last post.
 
Back in the olden days chalice patens were used only by the priest.
The servers used larger patens with large handles while the priest distributed Communion to the people.
 
centurionguard said:
images.google.ca/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=chalice+paten&oq=&gs_rfai=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=ivaoS7ekAcGclgfRx8ygDw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQsAQwAA

I never said the offertory procession was a problem. In most instances during consecration the priest places the Chalice + Paten on the Corporal linen cloth that usually covers the area around the altar stone. My priest does not use the Paten with the large host typically placed on the Paten. Alternatively he places the large host inside the Ciborium with other small host to be consecrated.

My question would be is, should a priest have the option to omit using the Paten typically used with the Chalice?

My apologies for not clarifying my last post.
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GIRM 118 implies “no” by listing the paten with the host as requisite to be on the credence table.
GIRM 141 specifies him receiving it with the bread.
GIRM 151 specifies elevating both chalice and paten.
 
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