Dominican Rite?

[malphono]

As to the Dominican usage, in Monroe, Ct, Bp Mckenna says it everyday, never having stopped. The website is rosarychapel.net It is worth a visit. He doesn’t accept any of the changes since Vatican II, nor those men who have put them into place. One can’t unite yourself with those who have shown by their actions or writing that they have defected from the faith.

I had a look at the link and get the distinct impression that this is another independent sede group.

 

[malphono]

I like the cappello romano. If I were a Dominican I’d wouldn’t ever take that sucker off.

I’m not an expert on things Dominican, but I think it’s called a cappa.

 

[Jimzz12]

I looked at the link too. It does appear to be another group who thinks they know better than the Body of Christ. It’s awfully gnostic of anyone who has that perception. I can say with some surety that unless a usuage is directly and positively connected with a group of religious or diocese in full-communion it is something to be wary about. I’ve come to realize in my own experience looking at different forms and use has become almost like the precipice found with pornography. You stand at the end and you’ll slip no doubt about it. More often than not we’re probably better off taking a couple of steps back and looking through a glass rather than the naked eye. This was my intention upon starting this thread. I had become interested in the Dominican usage, but as always I need to be wary. It’s a funny thing. I know when I assist a Novo Ordo Mass, I know what to look for. It might not always be perfect, the hymns might lean toward heresy like those of Dan Schutte or Marty Hagan, or even outright assault by the non-Christian David Haas, but at least I know the priest is validly ordained and presiding under the authority of a validly seated bishop. Sure there might be flaws, and the Lord knows they are there, but it’s kind of like the fable of golden goose. The eggs she lay might not be the brillant gold it was in yester years, but at least it does glimmer from time to time and have a discernable value. I lament everytime a group of the faithful (sede vacante) slaughter their golden goose, not obediently awaiting in patience, in an attempt to greedily get their hands on everything of value. Our mission here on earth is perfect Creation; like anything else it was expand and contract. So, with this in mind we are all aware of the religious who have serious flaws in their ministry. Many times they get too humanistic. Other times they become caught up in the politics of today. It’s really a crapshoot finding spiritual guidance, but at least it’s better than being on our own. We have a divine gardener who trims the unhealthy shoots from his vine.

I seek to keep the focus of the discussion on the Order of Friar Preachers (OP). Any information regarding shoots of the OP to be avoided will provide an invaluable service. Thank you.

 

[malphono]

I seek to keep the focus of the discussion on the Order of Friar Preachers (OP). Any information regarding shoots of the OP to be avoided will provide an invaluable service. Thank you.

One thing is that the outfit in the posted link is not in any way, shape, or form, part of the OP. A Dominican who is a sede is still a sede and therefore not part of the Order.

I haven’t had direct dealings with Dominicans for years, but I can say that, even in the dark days of the early '70s, their orthodoxy seems to have held up better than most. I also recall that Ste Anne in Fall River was a French-speaking Dominican parish, served by the one priory in the US of the Québec province. And again, in those dark days, they maintained the OP observance quite nicely. But that was years ago. The parish still exists, but I’ve no idea sure if it’s still served by the same Province of Dominicans, or even if that Province is still what it used to be. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

Anyway, the links you yourself posted earlier in this thread are probably your best bet to help separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Jimzz12]

‘Un Cappello’ is Modern Italian for ‘a hat’. Just don’t call it ‘un cappellino’ (a cute hat) unless your a homosexual and you’re hitting on the poor friar-preacher. ‘Bambini’ wear ‘cappellini’. I suppose ‘ragazze’ (young women) can wear cute hats.

‘Una Cappa’ is Modern Italian for ‘a cloak’, or more accurately ‘a cape’ (not like superman’s though).

(we might have crossed singles… …the way of the internet)

And ‘cappa di camino’ is the cowl or the hood part not to be confused with ‘cappa di cucina’ which is like the exhaust fan thing over a range or stove.

Now, ‘cappellano’ is chaplain. And ‘cappellano capovolto’ is an ‘upside-down chaplain’.
If you want to have more fun you might say, "Non capovolgera il cappellano capovolto, tu capoccia di spillo!’ (Don’t upset the upside-down chaplain, you pin-head!)

I don’t know. My Italian is getting better. I should’ve learnt it as a kid. I’ve got the task of teaching the little ones now, but it’s tough when our communist public school system does everything in their power to dumb them down and kill their ability to think.

That being said… Finocchio… Pinocchio. There’s a certain Latin culture word play hidden in the title of the story Walt Disney ripped off. ‘Finocchio’, I’ve come to find means two things ‘Fennel’ and ‘Pansy’ (as in the flower), but a pansy is also derogatory for a homosexual. ‘Pino’ means ‘pine’ (as in the type of wood)… It doesn’t take a genius to realize what the word play on ‘Pinocchio’ is after seeing a the animated cartoon. I mean, we all know it’s a cautionary tale about what happens to little boys if they are raised by the wrong people in the wrong way (like say… our communist lowest common denominator public school system). That was fun. I had to learn to be careful with my word selection when I was learning Spanish. Those guys are vicious. I’ve always known about Latin word play, being a half-breed Irishman-Italian, but it didn’t really click until, again, I started speaking Spanish.

 

[malphono]

Oh, I know the difference between a capello and a cappa. But I’ve never seen a Dominican in habit wear anything on his head other than his capuce. Perhaps they do and I’ve not seen it. Or perhaps it’s custom in Rome, and I didn’t pay attention.

 

[Jimzz12]

Oh, I know the difference between a capello and a cappa. But I’ve never seen a Dominican in habit wear anything on his head other than his capuce. Perhaps they do and I’ve not seen it. Or perhaps it’s custom in Rome, and I didn’t pay attention.

I expected a man as dignified as you to know the difference. I just learnt a Roman slang for the ‘cappello romano’… They call it ‘saturno’… More wordplay on the rings of Saturn.

Of course, it might be nice to see parish priests wearing zucchetti again. Have they ever lost that priviledge. I suspect that haven’t – but rather priests might not realize they are allowed to. I remeber being told when I was little that we don’t do Adoration of the Eucharist or pray the Holy Rosary. Maybe it’s slipped through the cracks for some fallacious reason.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Joe17]

Well, I just thought I would let those interested that there was somewhere in the world where the Dominican usage was continuously said. You are most certainly right that Bp Mckenna doesn’t accept Vatican II or those who have called themselves “popes” since then. Mind you, if you do accept the Vatican II popes as valid, then I am sure you accept their teaching concerning “partial communion” with other “churches” and sects, the ability for non-Catholics, under certain conditions, being able to receive Holy Communion, Extreme Unction, or go to sacramental Confession, as per canon 844.3 & 4 of the 1983 Code of Canon law. This is contrary to the 1917 Code. Also, make sure you defend the doctrine of Vatican II and the New Cathechism which speaks of the Holy Spirit using Protestant “Churches” as a means of salvation, something against the teaching or the Catholic Church.
Never mind the idea of praying with other religions. Speaking of such things(giving respect to other religions, I’m not talking about a particular person, but the belief system) one should do himself a favor and read Bishop George Hay of late 18th/early 19th century Scotland and what he taught in his “General Laws of God, Forbidding All Communication In Religion With Those Of A False Religion”. He uses Holy Scripture and Tradition to demonstrate that layman and cleric’s alike are not to even give the impression that we are publicly praying with and taking some part in non-Catholic worship. It can be found at olrl.org/doctrine/ecumenism_hay.shtml

After one reads through that, one must ask themself how the ecumenical movement can be squared with what has been previously taught. I recommend also, of course, Pope Pius XI’s “Mortalium Animos” for succinct papal condemnation of the ecumenical and interfaith movement of VII. How could JPII’s and Benedict XVI’s behaviors and actions be not considered suspect and objects of shock amongst the Catholic faithful when one is informed about the teaching of the Church in these matters? Notwithstanding some of the good things the VII popes have said, you have to judge their whole program, good and bad, and not just some inoffensive elements of it.

I would recommend that you also pray and think on how JPII could have approved of a Mass/Divine Liturgy, like he did for the schismatic Assyrian’s, that does not contain the words or consecration-none of them-conceding that the words are not there, but that the calling down of the Holy Spirit upon the gifts suffices for this liturgy. All the other Masses of the Church have the words of consecration that Christ gave us at the Last Supper-this one has none. Please pray and think on this.

Joe

 

[malphono]

I expected a man as dignified as you to know the difference. I just learnt a Roman slang for the ‘cappello romano’… They call it ‘saturno’… More wordplay on the rings of Saturn.

Of course, it might be nice to see parish priests wearing zucchetti again. Have they ever lost that priviledge. I suspect that haven’t – but rather priests might not realize they are allowed to. I remeber being told when I was little that we don’t do Adoration of the Eucharist or pray the Holy Rosary. Maybe it’s slipped through the cracks for some fallacious reason.

Cute photo. So apparently OP friars do (or did) wear it. But according to what I’ve read about the OP, it’s not truly part of the habit.

As for the zuchetto, as far as I know, it’s restricted to bishops and canon lawyers, but there may be others. I’m not sure about this, but I think it dates from Pius IX’s reform of clerical garb.

Not at all sure what you meant about Adoration or the Rosary.

 

[Jimzz12]

Growing up in the late 70’s and 80’s… We were always told things like ‘we don’t believe in that anymore’. Adoration and the Rosary were only two of those things.

Let me see if I can remember some others: We don’t use confessionals anymore, you alter boys don’t use cassock and surplus anymore, I remember when the tabernacle was removed and put into a side room chapel with a door (a misguided good intention). There was a general dismissiveness infecting the air during my youth.

I was given the Eucharist before my first confession (apparently that was a wide-spread abuse back then… since children couldn’t have possibly sinned). Like many others who were subjected to this abuse I feel robbed even to this day of a proper right of passage. Don’t get me started on the charismatic slain in the spirit thing – didn’t work for me – but I also feel that violated my spiritual intimacy with Christ and thus robbed me… better yet, raped me of my proper Confirmation (I am not the only one who feels that way).

Reasons like this is why I believe Catholics should be exposed to the different rites and usages. Being taught these in the stead of other world religions in the Catholic colleges and highschools would go a long, long way toward bulwarking the individual soul against attack while simutaneously fleshing out thier sense of catholicity (the concept that we are truly a world church and not just a couple of crazy white guys from midieval Europe).

From what I have seen of the Dominican usage it really sets a high standard. It raises the bar for the Novo Ordo Mass. By raising the bar, slippage into the lax atmosphere, so often seen in years past, would become less likely. I had been doing some thinking about the friar-preachers and their an incredibly useful group of men. If the Dominicans, here in the USA, re-dedicated themselves wandering the face of the country, going from church to church, altar to altar, and using their Domincan usage the whole time, as they traveled, it could raise the bar. The devotion would expose the less-worldly faithful (in terms of catholicity) to a deeper sense of understanding. It might also bring a renewal to parish priests who then would be challenged to up the ante just a little – possibly bringing about revitalization where needed.

Tell me if that makes sense.

 

[malphono]

Growing up in the late 70’s and 80’s… We were always told things like ‘we don’t believe in that anymore’. Adoration and the Rosary were only two of those things. …

From what I have seen of the Dominican usage it really sets a high standard. It raises the bar for the Novo Ordo Mass. By raising the bar, slippage into the lax atmosphere, so often seen in years past, would become less likely. I had been doing some thinking about the friar-preachers and their an incredibly useful group of men. If the Dominicans, here in the USA, re-dedicated themselves wandering the face of the country, going from church to church, altar to altar, and using their Domincan usage the whole time, as they traveled, it could raise the bar. The devotion would expose the less-worldly faithful (in terms of catholicity) to a deeper sense of understanding. It might also bring a renewal to parish priests who then would be challenged to up the ante just a little – possibly bringing about revitalization where needed.

Tell me if that makes sense.

Ah, ok, now I see your meaning. And yes, it does make some sense. Most of it sounds like good material for you to start another thread, and if you do, I’m sure it will be very interesting. For the moment, though, I’m confining my small comment to the topic in this thread.

Remember that the proper Dominican usage was and is just that: proper to the Order. Of course where Dominicans served parish churches, the Dominican usage was done, same as was the case with the Carmelites. But keep in mind that the presence of Dominicans and Carmelites in parishes was always limited, so only a relatively small number of people outside the Orders were regularly exposed to either. Also, keep in mind that the revival of the traditional Dominican usage is (unfortunately) from from universal at this point.

I doubt that the influence of the Dominican usage (or, if it ever comes out of its coma, the Carmelite), would have much of a bearing on many diocesan bishops, nor on many diocesan priests, nor those in other Orders and congregations. OTOH, though, what will (and does) have a bearing is the ever growing interest in recapturing liturgical tradition as a whole. Say “thank you” to PP Benedict XVI for Summorum Pontificum.

 

[Jimzz12]

I spoke with my father today about the Dominicans. He told me when he was growing up in the city. The Dominicans would wander from parish to parish. He said whenever there was a novena, or anything else significant they were the ones conducting everything. He said the thing he remembers most about them is that they were always preaching and always hearing confessions everywhere they went. But, alas, that was 1940’s Boston.

 

[malphono]

I spoke with my father today about the Dominicans. He told me when he was growing up in the city. The Dominicans would wander from parish to parish. He said whenever there was a novena, or anything else significant they were the ones conducting everything. He said the thing he remembers most about them is that they were always preaching and always hearing confessions everywhere they went. But, alas, that was 1940’s Boston.

Yep, that’s sort of what the Dominican’s did. Probably one reason why they’re the “Order of Friars Preachers”

But, I wouldn’t exactly call it “wandering.” More like “traveling,” and even that’s not the right word, but it’s the best my addled brain can do at the moment. What I mean is, part of their ministry was to arrange to go from parish to parish to preach (on the order of what they call “missions” these days), and often hear confessions. Sometimes the pastor would invite the friar to offer one of the scheduled Masses, but usually he was there as a guest preacher. It might be interesting to ask your dad if he recalls the friars offering Mass, and if so, if he remembers any difference.