Don’t just defend the fort. Attack!

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What do you mean by “work”?

Certain actions are bad, no matter who buys in, or even if nobody buys in.
Certain actions have consequences, regardless if somebody “believes in” it or not.
And no, you don’t get to pay for the privilege of commiting a sin with years of “good behavior” ahead of it.

You see, God did not sit up there at the beiginning of time, holding a list of possible human actions and gleefully check off “mortal sin, mortal sin, venial sin…oh what the heck, I’ll let them do this”.

There are certain actions that will hurt us and other people , and God warns us against them.

And it’s difficult and people rebel. And then suffer the consequences.
Are the consequences a karmic lightning strike? Of course not.
But a general sickening and weakening of the soul and society is sure to follow.
 
There is no way to attack in the first place, because there is no incentative for people to give it up.
 
To me, the strongest case against some of the sexual mores of the Church come from Catholics themselves. We’ve seen on CAF women who already have more children than they can handle asking if there is any way to be allowed some method to prevent getting pregnant a 5th, 6th, 7th time while still maintaining relationships with their husbands. It’s clear from these posts that these women are very strong but are at the breaking point,

My heart goes out to them, especially when they get responses passing the buck. They’ll suggest speaking to a priest or spiritual adviser, but we know what the answer will be: Either no sex ever again until menopause or risk a child that may be beyond one’s capacity to care for properly.
 
Freddy said:
I think the problem Catholicism has with sexual morality is that it is all or nothing. Black and white. No exceptions.
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That’s just not true. It’s completely contrary to the gospel. Jesus himself said that those who are healthy do not need a doctor.
 
Our Lady warned us that the final battle will be the attack on marriage and the family…there is plenty we can do. Praying of course and proclaiming the teachings of Jesus in a steadfast manner. Politics is also part of spiritual warfare and the battlelines are pretty clear how a Catholic should vote.
 
What does any of what you wrote have to do with the linked article? 🤔
 
Freddy said:
So if a couple are told they must not have sex and they say "Well, gee - we’re getting married tomorrow. We’ve been together for years. We are comitted to each other for life’. Then the answer will still be: ‘Nup. Can’t do it. Mortal sin’.
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Surely if they’ve waited all this time, one more day is doable. Sex has the power to produce new life which is no small matter. Until that commitment is made during the Sacrament of Matrimony, one should not claim the goods of marriage. It’s more crucial for the woman who risks pregnancy without the commitment. If we say it’s ok to have sex the day before marriage, is that the cut-off or is it no more than a week before or is it ok once engaged? What happens if the woman gets pregnant and the guy breaks off the engagement? Where does that leave her? There is a reason behind the Church’s wisdom in these matters.
 
Elizabeth3 said:
Surely if they’ve waited all this time, one more day is doable. Sex has the power to produce new life which is no small matter. Until that commitment is made during the Sacrament of Matrimony, one should not claim the goods of marriage. It’s more crucial for the woman who risks pregnancy without the commitment. If we say it’s ok to have sex the day before marriage, is that the cut-off or is it no more than a week before or is it ok once engaged? What happens if the woman gets pregnant and the guy breaks off the engagement? Where does that leave her? There is a reason behind the Church’s wisdom in these matters.
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No! People who don’t have have sex drop dead in an instant!
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At least that’s the attitude from those opposing Christian teachings on sexuality. One poster even posted on CAF a non-existent medical condition men supposedly get if they don’t have sex. It was so bizarre. And it wasn’t even satire. It was so sad to read that.
 
Freddy said:
If there is a stretch of road where there have been some accidents then you post speed limits. You don’t tell people they can’t drive on it. So to tell someone they can’t have sex AT ALL isn’t going to work.
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And yet so many people manage. Maybe they have something called self-control. It might be a foreign concept to many in the modern West where instant gratification and self-centredness are valued.
 
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
There are certain actions that will hurt us and other people , and God warns us against them.
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This is somewhat of a generic response to all those that responded to my post.

Indeed there are actions that will harm us. And having sex is one of them. Of that there is no doubt. But to say that ALL sex before marriage will do so is patently wrong. But that is the position being taken.

Unless I am mistaken, the Catholic position on marriage is primarily based on commitment. Not necessarily on a legaly binding document that signifies that one has been married.

In any case, not everyone’s marriage would be accepted by the Catholic church. So we have the ridiculous situation where a couple has done wrong if the church accepts their marriage and has had sex prior to that marriage whereas another couple is deemed not to have done wrong if it is. You’d think that doing something wrong would be wrong in itself.

My marriage would not be recognised by the church. Are my wife and I doing wrong if we make love?
 
If God is love, than all opposed to His commandments is not love, but something else. We think it is love through our own heart but that alas is not pure anymore. People of all ages have been having problems accepting that sometimes what we feel is not the truth. Despite our desire to think we all aim to have that perfect instinct and most of the times we just end up justifying our instinct and intuit as being true, even if it’s not, just for the sake of it.
The reason behind it is our soul, who wants our position back to the original state of Creation, without fall, without mistake. The intention is noble but the means are all misleading when we go up against God.
Let the One Who has not sinned judge. We all need patience as part of our meekness, and accept that sometimes we fall many times, like small children, before we learn how to walk. That walk which is the beating of a flawless heart, when our needs and instincts never flinch from God’s will which is perfect, and cannot be corrected nor complemented because it is True Love.
 
Freddy said:
Indeed there are actions that will harm us. And having sex is one of them. Of that there is no doubt. But to say that ALL sex before marriage will do so is patently wrong. But that is the position being taken.
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All sex outside of the marriage bond has the potential to do great harm especially to children who have the right to a married mother and father and to be sheltered in the safety of a family secured by vows made before God or at least by the state. Sometimes we escape the immediate consequences of our actions but there are consequences to our souls as well. The potential harm of sex outside of marriage is enough to say that it should not be engaged in. There are also sacramental graces the couple receives that are a help to them throughout their lives in living out their vows.
Freddy said:
Unless I am mistaken, the Catholic position on marriage is primarily based on commitment. Not necessarily on a legaly binding document that signifies that one has been married.
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It’s based on a commitment to the vows spoken before God, the Church and the community by participation in the Sacrament of Matrimony. The Church cooperates with civil and legal laws governing marriage as well because they provide the spouses with protections and privileges that also help them in their temporal lives.
Freddy said:
In any case, not everyone’s marriage would be accepted by the Catholic church.
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Of course. Anyone who has a natural or sacramental marriage is recognized by the Church as married unless it can be shown that there was some impediment to them being married in the first place that would make the marriage null.
Freddy said:
So we have the ridiculous situation where a couple has done wrong if the church accepts their marriage and has had sex prior to that marriage whereas another couple is deemed not to have done wrong if it is.
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Not sure I’m following you here in the second part “whereas another couple is deemed not to have done wrong if it is.” Can you be more specific?
Freddy said:
My marriage would not be recognised by the church. Are my wife and I doing wrong if we make love?
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Why would it not be recognized? Are you divorced and remarried without an annulment? Was there a lack of consent on your part or the part of your wife? I assume you are married to a woman so there’s no impediment there. I assume you were able to consummate the marriage, so that wouldn’t be a factor. I also assume she’s not a relative. Unless, you have one of the above impediments, the Church would recognize your marriage as a natural one if not sacramental, and would not consider that you are doing wrong by making love to your wife.
 
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Elizabeth3 said:
Why would it not be recognized? Are you divorced and remarried without an annulment? Was there a lack of consent on your part or the part of your wife? I assume you are married to a woman so there’s no impediment there. I assume you were able to consummate the marriage, so that wouldn’t be a factor. I also assume she’s not a relative. Unless, you have one of the above impediments, the Church would recognize your marriage as a natural one if not sacramental, and would not consider that you are doing wrong by making love to your wife.
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My guess would be that one or both of them was Catholic, and as a result bound to marry in the Catholic Church.
 
As a Catholic who accepts the Church’s teachings, I don’t appreciate the approach many here (and beyond) take: “you can’t go without sex for a week you weak sick puppy?!? Just wait until marriage and it’s all good!” This is beyond misleading. There is no way around it…the Church’s teaching is hard, very hard. And no it does not stop with marriage. Married couples will also have to abstain regularly, especially if practicing natural family planning, and sometimes for long periods. It’s going to be gruelling, horribly, almost unbearably hard for some people and we do a great disservice by pretending otherwise. The path to life is narrow and HARD. Our Lord promised it would be tough. And it will be. Don’t lie.
 
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