"Double up" on an indulgence, or devotion, and an assigned penance?

[Edmundus1581]

This issue has come up for me more than once. This hypothetical scenario sums it up…

I am performing a devotion which is approved by the church, for a plenary indulgence. Two of the conditions for the indulgence are to say prayers for the intentions of the Supreme Pontiff and also go to confession. Let’s say that in confession the priest assigns a penance of praying for the intentions of the Holy Father. Should I pray for the Holy Father twice to fulfill both requirements?

A similar scenario is when a condition required by an approved devotion (eg. First Saturdays) is also assigned as a penance.

And, now a third, related scenario: I say the rosary in a group, and the group leader offers up the rosary “for all the intentions of the Holy Father”. In this case, by saying the rosary in that group, would I have fulfilled an assigned penance, of prayers for Holy Father, or condition for First Saturdays)?

Three questions, I know - but if I could at least get an answer to the first one, then I’d be most grateful, and that might give me the principles to work out the other two.

An easy answer is to say the prayers twice “to be sure”, but I am genuinely interested in getting a correct answer, as I think I am reasonably competant with most practical aspects of sacraments and devotions, but just don’t know the answer to these questions.

Thankyou,

Edmundus

 

[Bookcat]

This issue has come up for me more than once. This hypothetical scenario sums it up…

I am performing a devotion which is approved by the church, for a plenary indulgence. Two of the conditions for the indulgence are to say prayers for the intentions of the Supreme Pontiff and also go to confession. Let’s say that in confession the priest assigns a penance of praying for the intentions of the Holy Father. Should I pray for the Holy Father twice to fulfill both requirements?

A similar scenario is when a condition required by an approved devotion (eg. First Saturdays) is also assigned as a penance.

And, now a third, related scenario: I say the rosary in a group, and the group leader offers up the rosary “for all the intentions of the Holy Father”. In this case, by saying the rosary in that group, would I have fulfilled an assigned penance, of prayers for Holy Father, or condition for First Saturdays)?

Three questions, I know - but if I could at least get an answer to the first one, then I’d be most grateful, and that might give me the principles to work out the other two.

An easy answer is to say the prayers twice “to be sure”, but I am genuinely interested in getting a correct answer, as I think I am reasonably competant with most practical aspects of sacraments and devotions, but just don’t know the answer to these questions.

Thankyou,

Edmundus

It is clear from the “norms of indulgences” that one may gain an indulgence from a work that has even been given as a penance …so it would seem that one could reasonably say that if ones penance is to pray for the Pope…that this by analogy can be part of your gaining an indulgence likewise. For if the very work can be done as a penance…one would reasonably imagine that the other condition could be too…But one may always add another prayer too of your own words…the Pope can sure use it

It would seem to me that one could think the same way for private devotions from private revelations. Though if say the private revelation asked for a Rosary say for peace and your penance was a rosary for your family…then I would pray two rosaries personally. And since one can do ones penance later…on can do it the next day of course…

I know that one may gain an indulgence by such “group prayer”…but as for fulfilling your penance…just simply ask the priest who gave it if you may pray it with a group (doing your part)…or you could simply “pray the whole rosary” …part of it silently…and part aloud as your penance…this last part would certainly work for the “First Saturdays” too…praying very very quietly the part that is not recited aloud and then reciting with everybody the aloud part…

 

[Edmundus1581]

It is clear from the “norms of indulgences” that one may gain an indulgence from a work that has even been given as a penance …so it would seem that one could reasonably say that if ones penance is to pray for the Pope…that this by analogy can be part of your gaining an indulgence likewise. For if the very work can be done as a penance…one would reasonably imagine that the other condition could be too…But one may always add another prayer too of your own words…the Pope can sure use it

It would seem to me that one could think the same way for private devotions from private revelations. Though if say the private revelation asked for a Rosary say for peace and your penance was a rosary for your family…then I would pray two rosaries personally. And since one can do ones penance later…on can do it the next day of course…

I know that one may gain an indulgence by such “group prayer”…but as for fulfilling your penance…just simply ask the priest who gave it if you may pray it with a group (doing your part)…or you could simply “pray the whole rosary” …part of it silently…and part aloud as your penance…this last part would certainly work for the “First Saturdays” too…praying very very quietly the part that is not recited aloud and then reciting with everybody the aloud part…

Thankyou, Bobcat! I was hoping that someone would be able to point me to a church document, to get the matter on to firm ground.

You cited the Norms for Indulgences

1. An indulgence cannot be attached to a work to which a person is obliged by law or precept, unless expressly stated in the grant. Nevertheless** a person who performs a work imposed as a penance in confession and which may also be indulgenced can at the one time both satisfy the sacramental penance and gain the indulgence.**

1. To gain indulgences it suffices to recite the prayer alternating with another person or to follow it mentally as another recites it.

So, 1. I can satisfy requirements for an indulgence, with a prayer imposed as penance, and 2., for the plenary indulgence, I can follow the rosary leader offering it up for the Holy Father.

I agree the same principle would then apply to a devotion, such as the First Saturdays I mentioned. Your “rosary for peace” and “rosary for the family” example is very good - in that case, I would say two rosaries also.

However, as you suggest, I would be more cautious in saying that an imposed penance could be satisfied by participation in a group. I expect that the priest would say yes, but, as it is a condition of absolution, we should check with him first. Or quietly say the parts which one doesn’t say aloud in the group.

 

[Vico]

Thankyou, Bobcat! I was hoping that someone would be able to point me to a church document, to get the matter on to firm ground.

You cited the Norms for Indulgences

So, 1. I can satisfy requirements for an indulgence, with a prayer imposed as penance, and 2., for the plenary indulgence, I can follow the rosary leader offering it up for the Holy Father.

I agree the same principle would then apply to a devotion, such as the First Saturdays I mentioned. Your “rosary for peace” and “rosary for the family” example is very good - in that case, I would say two rosaries also.

However, as you suggest, I would be more cautious in saying that an imposed penance could be satisfied by participation in a group. I expect that the priest would say yes, but, as it is a condition of absolution, we should check with him first. Or quietly say the parts which one doesn’t say aloud in the group.

Those norms are obsolete. They have been replaced by the 1999 fourth edition, Latin:

vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_doc_20020826_enchiridion-indulgentiarum_lt.html

Norm 21 is what you want, translated it is:

Norm 21

Section 1. Unless ortherwise stated, an indulgence cannot be gained by a work already imposed by law or precept.

Section 2. One, however, who performs a work which has been imposed as a sacramental penance and which happens to be one enriched with an indulgence, can at the same time both satisfy the penance and gain the indulgence.

Section 3. Similarly, members of institutes of consecrated life and societies of the apostolic life can obtain the indulgences attached to prayers and prius works already obligatory by reason of their rules and constitutions or by precept.

The plenary requires much. (And can be for self or a faithfully departed one.)

From norm 17:

1. general intention of gaining the indulgence
2. must be baptised, not excommunicated, and in a state of grace at least by the time of the completion of the work
   From norm 18:
3. only one plenary indulgence per day unless at the hour of death
   And from norm 20:
4. sacramental confession within a few days (about 20) before of after the indulgenced work (which may serve for many indulgences)
5. exclusion of all attachment to sin, even venial sin
6. Eucharistic Communion preferably on the day of the indulgenced work
7. prayers (e.g. Our Father and Hail Mary, or similar) for the intention of the Sovereign Pontiff preferably on the day of the indulgenced work
   From norm 22:
8. indulgenced prayer may be in any language where the translation is approved by competent ecclesiastical authority

One of the simplest plenary indulgence examples:

1. have the intention of gaining the plenary indulgence for yourself or a faithful departed
2. complete a sacramental confession (within about 20 days before or after the work)
   Complete the following on a day you are assisting at Mass or Divine Liturgy:
3. say two prayers for the intention of the Sovereign Pontiff
4. receive the Holy Eucharist
5. use concession 30: read the Sacred Scriptures as spiritual reading, from a text approved by competent authority and with the reverence due to the divine word, for at least half an hour; less time is a partial indulgence. (Those unable to read may listen from person, audio, or video.) Alternatively, 30 minutes of Eucharistic Adoration (concession 7 section 1).

 

[Edmundus1581]

Those norms are obsolete. They have been replaced by the 1999 fourth edition, Latin:

vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_doc_20020826_enchiridion-indulgentiarum_lt.html

Norm 21 is what you want, translated it is:

…

Thanks for that, Vico! The particular answers to my questions are the same, but it is always best to be referring to the correct document.

The complete English translation of the 1999 Enchiridion of Indulgences seems to be only available as a book (2006), from USCCB. There is an extract here, covering the paras relevant to my question.

Oh, and well spotted! There can’t be many Catholics who would spot the difference between the 1986 Norms for Indulgences, and the the 1999!

~ Edmundus

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thanks for that, Vico! The particular answers to my questions are the same, but it is always best to be referring to the correct document.

The complete English translation of the 1999 Enchiridion of Indulgences seems to be only available as a book (2006), from USCCB. There is an extract here, covering the paras relevant to my question.

Oh, and well spotted! There can’t be many Catholics who would spot the difference between the 1986 Norms for Indulgences, and the the 1999!

 

[Spirithound]

However, as you suggest, I would be more cautious in saying that an imposed penance could be satisfied by participation in a group. I expect that the priest would say yes, but, as it is a condition of absolution, we should check with him first. Or quietly say the parts which one doesn’t say aloud in the group.

Performing a penance is not a condition of absolution. All absolutions are absolute and not dependent on any following action of the penitent.

 

[Vico]

Thanks for that, Vico! The particular answers to my questions are the same, but it is always best to be referring to the correct document.

The complete English translation of the 1999 Enchiridion of Indulgences seems to be only available as a book (2006), from USCCB. There is an extract here, covering the paras relevant to my question.

Oh, and well spotted! There can’t be many Catholics who would spot the difference between the 1986 Norms for Indulgences, and the the 1999!

~ Edmundus

I am glad it was helpful. I would not know either except that I bought the book in 2009. That 1999 Enchiridion also made available plenary indulgences for prayers of the Eastern Catholic Churches (e.g., The Akathistos and also the Office of the Paraclesis) obtainable by faithful members of any Catholic Church, and an additional partial indulgence general grant for public witness of their faith.

The Way of the Cross (a bit more complex, grant 13.2) is an available plenary indulgence also.