Downloading hymns from the internet a sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Oumashta
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
O

Oumashta

Guest
I recently asked a priest whether or not it was a sin to download music off of the internet, specifically downloading hymns and chants. He said that we have made our world too complicated with all of these copyright things with music and told me that it was ok for me to download music. He then said that the people who sing these hymns and chants never asked “copyright” from the Church to make songs about Jesus, Mary, saints, etc… and since it’s online for everyone to hear, it’s ok. I just wanted to know if the priest’s advice is right, since I have hundreds of hymns and chants on my phone, none of which have been downloaded in the “right” way. I used a program that converts youtube music into MP3 format, and I never thought there was a problem until I read on another thread that file-sharing and downloading music online was a sin. Please help.
Thanks and God bless.🙂
 
I would also like to add that I don’t sell the hymns that I download online, and I only use them for my personal devotion. If a friend of mine likes a hymn, then I usually give him a copy of the file, but no money is involved; it that a sin?:confused:
 
Oumashta said:
I recently asked a priest whether or not it was a sin to download music off of the internet, specifically downloading hymns and chants. He said that we have made our world too complicated with all of these copyright things with music and told me that it was ok for me to download music. He then said that the people who sing these hymns and chants never asked “copyright” from the Church to make songs about Jesus, Mary, saints, etc… and since it’s online for everyone to hear, it’s ok.
Click to expand...
I kinda have to agree w/ the priest here. We have made our world too complicated w/ the legal issues regarding music. I personally don’t see anything wrong w/ what you’re doing.
 
Your priest views copyright law as unjust and not worthy of obedience. This is one view of things; in many ways, copyright is a Western invention that is not seen in the same way in much of Asia and other parts of the world. I generally speak for the USA when I write my opinions. In the United States view (and shared by governments of Western Europe) copyright law is a necessary thing in the age of facile communication. It protects the rights of artists and publishers, and ensures that these people can earn a living wage by judicious licensing of their works. Intellectual property (IP) is viewed with many of the same rights as actual property. Admittedly, laws on copyright and IP are becoming harder and harder to navigate. They are a complex web of international treaties and local restrictions. And to add to the confusion, they are sporadically and selectively enforced. The film and music recording industries, full of drama, are controversial figures in this, trying to protect their interests, but sometimes going after lone violators with a sympathetic story.

Personally, I choose to obey copyright in the matters that I can control. It is just easier to keep my conscience clear rather than having nice things that entertain me. If you really believe that copyright is an unjust law, or you don’t think you will be caught, or you are prepared to defend yourself against such claims… then you have a different conscience from mine.
 
for me, it is okay as long as:
  1. it helps you very much in your devotions and growth in your relationship with God (like the prayer songs, meditative songs)
  2. you keep it personal and you dont involve money with sharing it.
 
It is stealing. It is the same as walking into a store, grabbing a cd, and walking out without paying. Just because its done in a different/new format doesn’t make it any better.
 
Oumashta said:
I recently asked a priest whether or not it was a sin to download music off of the internet, specifically downloading hymns and chants. He said that we have made our world too complicated with all of these copyright things with music and told me that it was ok for me to download music.
Click to expand...
Your priest is clearly not familiar with copyright. It is illegal to do what you are doing (and just so you know, the courts just upheld a judgment against an illegal downloader of over $300K in fines) AND it is immoral-- it is stealing someone else’s work that they have a right to be paid for.
Oumashta said:
He then said that the people who sing these hymns and chants never asked “copyright” from the Church to make songs about Jesus, Mary, saints, etc… and since it’s online for everyone to hear, it’s ok.
Click to expand...
He is quite incorrect, hopefully out of ignornace. All of the music we sing at Mass is purchased legally (hopefully) from the music publishers such as OCP, GIA, Adoremus, etc. Our diocese is particularly diligent in reminding parishes to respect copyright of music, books, manuals, etc.
Oumashta said:
I just wanted to know if the priest’s advice is right, since I have hundreds of hymns and chants on my phone, none of which have been downloaded in the “right” way. I used a program that converts youtube music into MP3 format, and I never thought there was a problem until I read on another thread that file-sharing and downloading music online was a sin. Please help.
Thanks and God bless.🙂
Click to expand...
No, it isn’t. You need to pay for music you download.
 
JeClark said:
for me, it is okay as long as:
  1. it helps you very much in your devotions and growth in your relationship with God (like the prayer songs, meditative songs)
  2. you keep it personal and you dont involve money with sharing it.
Click to expand...
This is called moral relativism. Do you not recognize it in your thinking?
 
Oumashta said:
I would also like to add that I don’t sell the hymns that I download online, and I only use them for my personal devotion. If a friend of mine likes a hymn, then I usually give him a copy of the file, but no money is involved; it that a sin?:confused:
Click to expand...
Yes.

How would you ilke it if you tried to make your living by composing music or singing, and people did not pay you but instead stole your work?
 
There’s a good chance that many of the things you’re downloading may be outside of copyright protection. As to whether it is a sin…well…I guess this is largely an issue of personal conscious. Not all illegal things are immoral, and not all immoral things are illegal.
 
1ke said:
Yes.

How would you ilke it if you tried to make your living by composing music or singing, and people did not pay you but instead stole your work?
Click to expand...
On the other hand, there are many artists who would be pleased as punch to know that they have two new fans. The question is licensing. I suggest that you seek out artists and publishers who are willing to give away songs for free. The Internet and the advent of electronic distribution has created a bonanza of new methods of promotion, at the same time it has decimated the old record store chain. Search the web for “Creative Commons” licensing, which is a very popular license for free works. Visit the Chant Cafe, a blog site with many interesting contributors and useful links. Musica Sacra also has free audio, and a forum. There is more liturgical stuff at Corpus Christi Watershed.

I am sorry if there are not enough hymns in the above links, but I am a choir member and these are the kinds of sites I am aware of. It may be difficult, but not impossible to find good Christian music for free on the Internet.

Another option is checking out your local libraries. I find that good libraries often have an extensive collection of music which you can borrow, or listen while visiting.
 
You’re priest is right about one thing, copyright laws have become incredibly convoluted and long ago ceased being about promoting creativity (seriously, do we really need to give author’s life + 70 years in many cases? That’s just stupid).

There is a bit of a fine line. Older hymns (depending on when and where they were written) may be in the public domain and would be free to download, listen to, use, modify, ect. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice (although given how incredibly convoluted things have become, most lawyers probably don’t fully understand it either).
1ke said:
How would you ilke it if you tried to make your living by composing music or singing, and people did not pay you but instead stole your work?
Click to expand...
Should it really still count though when it’s 50 years after you’ve died?
 
curlycool89 said:
You’re priest is right about one thing, copyright laws have become incredibly convoluted and long ago ceased being about promoting creativity (seriously, do we really need to give author’s life + 70 years in many cases? That’s just stupid).

There is a bit of a fine line. Older hymns (depending on when and where they were written) may be in the public domain and would be free to download, listen to, use, modify, ect. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice (although given how incredibly convoluted things have become, most lawyers probably don’t fully understand it either).

Should it really still count though when it’s 50 years after you’ve died?
Click to expand...
Actually public domain songs are free themselves, NOT someone’s recording of it. The artist who recorded it/their publisher/label etc, has say over whether how that is handled.
 
agapewolf said:
It is stealing. It is the same as walking into a store, grabbing a cd, and walking out without paying. Just because its done in a different/new format doesn’t make it any better.
Click to expand...
A store without building, roof, doors, sign, clerk, price tags, merchandise unprotected, without any attempt to tell the “customer” what the rules are. Copyright is a two-way street - if you don’t defend it you lose it.
 
JHow said:
A store without building, roof, doors, sign, clerk, price tags, merchandise unprotected, without any attempt to tell the “customer” what the rules are. Copyright is a two-way street - if you don’t defend it you lose it.
Click to expand...
This is the ultimate rationalization. Just because its easy, and you don’t get “caught” easily, does not make it right either.
 
agapewolf said:
This is the ultimate rationalization. Just because its easy, and you don’t get “caught” easily, does not make it right either.
Click to expand...
Not rationalizing taking what belongs to others - just pointing out that if I left my old couch outside by the sidewalk and someone took it I wouldn’t be justified in saying it was stolen.

One of the ways we know who owns what is by how they protect it. “Good fences makes good neighbors.”
 
JHow said:
A store without building, roof, doors, sign, clerk, price tags, merchandise unprotected, without any attempt to tell the “customer” what the rules are. Copyright is a two-way street - if you don’t defend it you lose it.
Click to expand...
This is a myth that comes from the way trademark law is set up. Copyright and trademark are two different things. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks

Copyright cannot be lost in this manner. It is always defensible.
 
_< I just assumed it was ok since the program I used was never taken down by the government and because the music was free to listen to on youtube. Do I need to go to confession and remove all the chants on my phone? I didn’t have any intention to steal; I just wanted to listen to some chants.
Click to expand...
 
Oumashta said:
_< I just assumed it was ok since the program I used was never taken down by the government and because the music was free to listen to on youtube. Do I need to go to confession and remove all the chants on my phone? I didn’t have any intention to steal; I just wanted to listen to some chants.
Click to expand...
It wasn’t free on youtube. They most likely didn’t provide it, someone else put it up, and they weren’t supposed to.

If you want to listen to some chants, buy them.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top