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dshix
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I heard a priest make a very good (and funny) comment on this topic - to paraphrase:
“At the Fall, Eve’s punishment was to suffer pain in childbirth, and Adam’s was that he would be forced to provide for himself by the sweat of his brow… why would women want to take on BOTH punishments!?”
“At the Fall, Eve’s punishment was to suffer pain in childbirth, and Adam’s was that he would be forced to provide for himself by the sweat of his brow… why would women want to take on BOTH punishments!?”
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IWantGod
Guest
Because in today’s world it’s necessary, and it makes no sense why a women would get paid less than a man doing the same job. It’s a prejudice plain and simple.
I find it offensive that people use the bible to defend something that’s obviously wrong.
I find it offensive that people use the bible to defend something that’s obviously wrong.
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Theo520
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I think you posted without bothering to watch the video.
The pay gap for equal work is really a myth.
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JanSobieskiIII
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If employers could save 30% on payroll with women you’d never see a man working.
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dshix
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I did actually post rather hastily, since I only had time to watch a part of the video and then was pulled away - my post therefore was somewhat off topic. (I was speaking more directly to the subject of women wanting to live the career life instead fulfilling the natural role of motherhood.IWantGod:
I think you posted without bothering to watch the video.
The pay gap for equal work is really a myth.
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So, returning to the topic of the thread: I absolutely agree that the pay gap is a myth. On the face of it, it seems to be a very attractive cause to leap on to, but it is founded on little evidence and a badly-formed argument.
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Theo520
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Yes, I agree using the bible to insist on traditional family roles doesn’t really work in our modern world.
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JimG
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I have never seen a job that advertised distinct salaries for men and women.
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dshix
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I would not say that “insist” is the right word.
Rather, I would suggest that it is indeed appropriate for us to use the Bible (and Church teaching) as a way of understanding God’s will for the roles of men and women, even in (especially in!) this modern world.
Woman’s role is NOT to provide for the family. That is a man’s role.
But we’re getting off topic again so I’ll quiet down.
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Lea101
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The pay gap as a whole seems like a waste of time. But at the same time, if we just let them continue to fight this…what would much would happen? (I genuinely don’t know)
That being said, I know there are some employers who would naturally tend to offer less for certain groups of people. But to fight this, you have to give a specific case/guilty person and go after that. Rallying and social media posts won’t do much. Perhaps they could focus on ensuring they get equal pay by other means. I know my professors encourage us to be open about our salaries to coworkers so we can see if there’s any discrimination at play.
That being said, I know there are some employers who would naturally tend to offer less for certain groups of people. But to fight this, you have to give a specific case/guilty person and go after that. Rallying and social media posts won’t do much. Perhaps they could focus on ensuring they get equal pay by other means. I know my professors encourage us to be open about our salaries to coworkers so we can see if there’s any discrimination at play.
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Lea101
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It’s more to do with the salary offered to them (usually salaries are discussed individually). As a whole? Research shows that the pay gap is rather a myth if we look at it overall. Maybe in some cases, sure.
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Thom18
Guest
Women aren’t paid less for the same job, in the same company, when they have the same experience and education as a man- and if they are, it’s illegal, and has been for decades.
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PetraG
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Saying that employees who make sacrifices to make money and get ahead at the expense of their family and personal lives are going to make more money and gain more authority in an orgainziation, and deservedly so, of course he is right.
If he is saying there are some feminists who demonize men and have an unfair paranoia about why women make less money than they do, he’s right. I am continually stunned at the sweeping generalizations some feminists (male and female) make about men and women. They are doing exactly what they complain about!
The way he talks, however, makes the same mistake. He’s demonizing and having an unfair paranoia about women who question the status quo. He lumps them all in one big group and presumes they all labor under the same wrong-headed assumptions. He doesn’t seem to realize that the complaint in the workplace is not over how men treat their wives–for whom they buy diamonds and court by picking up the check for dinners out–but how they treat their administrative assistants and what kind of assumptions they make about the men and women who work for them in the same capacity.
I’m old enough to have been in a workplace where it really was assumed that women couldn’t drive a forklift. When the union saw to it that they got the chance, it turned out that the company started to prefer giving the job to the young women because at the time they were more careful with the equipment. (That, too, would be an unfair discrimination: that is, to just presume a young fellow would be a more careless forklift driver than his twin sister when he’s never been given a chance to show his character on the job.)
If he is saying there are some feminists who demonize men and have an unfair paranoia about why women make less money than they do, he’s right. I am continually stunned at the sweeping generalizations some feminists (male and female) make about men and women. They are doing exactly what they complain about!
The way he talks, however, makes the same mistake. He’s demonizing and having an unfair paranoia about women who question the status quo. He lumps them all in one big group and presumes they all labor under the same wrong-headed assumptions. He doesn’t seem to realize that the complaint in the workplace is not over how men treat their wives–for whom they buy diamonds and court by picking up the check for dinners out–but how they treat their administrative assistants and what kind of assumptions they make about the men and women who work for them in the same capacity.
I’m old enough to have been in a workplace where it really was assumed that women couldn’t drive a forklift. When the union saw to it that they got the chance, it turned out that the company started to prefer giving the job to the young women because at the time they were more careful with the equipment. (That, too, would be an unfair discrimination: that is, to just presume a young fellow would be a more careless forklift driver than his twin sister when he’s never been given a chance to show his character on the job.)
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Xantippe
Guest
My first Russian textbook was a book called “Russian for Everybody.” One of the vocabulary words was “female crane operator” (“kranovshchitsa”).
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phil19034
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As someone who used to hire people, the idea of a pay gap is truly a myth.
The reason why, as a group (not individually), women make less is because many women still take time off to raise kids.
Some women take a couple months off, 6 months off (without pay), some take a year off, and some take several years off.
Most employees offer X number of weeks/months of paid time off for parental leave. For example, my current company offers 4 weeks of paid leave for fathers (and adoptive mothers) and 8 weeks of paid leave for biological mothers. Then, they offer up to a year of unpaid leave.
The men at my job typically take only the paid time off (if they take any of it), while it’s not uncommon for the Mothers to take 1 to 12 months of unpaid leave. I even knew one mother who took 12 months of unpaid leave and returned pregnant, eventually taking another 14 months off (2 paid, 12 unpaid).
Needless to say, if you take a year of unpaid time off, your lifetime earnings take a hit. And when you do return to work full time, you will pick up where you left off, losing out on your forfeited salary plus the annual raise for that year off.
Also, in jobs with overtime, mothers don’t typically work as many paid overtime hours as non-mothers.
These are the real reasons for the “pay gap,” which is NOT based on yearly salary, but rather on lifetime salary because on average, mothers take more time off than fathers.
Plus, historically, men have been willing to argue for higher salaries in the past, but this is really leveling out now due to corporations having less wiggle room in their starting salary ranges and women starting to negotiate for higher salaries like men.
The reason why, as a group (not individually), women make less is because many women still take time off to raise kids.
Some women take a couple months off, 6 months off (without pay), some take a year off, and some take several years off.
Most employees offer X number of weeks/months of paid time off for parental leave. For example, my current company offers 4 weeks of paid leave for fathers (and adoptive mothers) and 8 weeks of paid leave for biological mothers. Then, they offer up to a year of unpaid leave.
The men at my job typically take only the paid time off (if they take any of it), while it’s not uncommon for the Mothers to take 1 to 12 months of unpaid leave. I even knew one mother who took 12 months of unpaid leave and returned pregnant, eventually taking another 14 months off (2 paid, 12 unpaid).
Needless to say, if you take a year of unpaid time off, your lifetime earnings take a hit. And when you do return to work full time, you will pick up where you left off, losing out on your forfeited salary plus the annual raise for that year off.
Also, in jobs with overtime, mothers don’t typically work as many paid overtime hours as non-mothers.
These are the real reasons for the “pay gap,” which is NOT based on yearly salary, but rather on lifetime salary because on average, mothers take more time off than fathers.
Plus, historically, men have been willing to argue for higher salaries in the past, but this is really leveling out now due to corporations having less wiggle room in their starting salary ranges and women starting to negotiate for higher salaries like men.
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Melissa
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But Russian is a language with genders, so that doesn’t point to too much.
As far as the “pay gap”–I believe that the evidence supports the statement that the “gender pay gap” is a lie perpetrated by people who think that choices should never have any “negative” consequences.
As far as the “pay gap”–I believe that the evidence supports the statement that the “gender pay gap” is a lie perpetrated by people who think that choices should never have any “negative” consequences.
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philipl
Guest
There is no pay gap if you look at the facts. If women are paid less, why dont companies hire more women? They would save up to 23% of their labor cost.
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Xantippe
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That was very interesting.
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Xantippe
Guest
The flip side of this discussion is that people have to accept the fact that motherhood (and especially young motherhood) is economically very expensive to women.
Becoming a mother nukes a woman’s earning potential by interrupting and slowing her educational and/or employment progress, suppressing the number of hours she can work (let alone the number of hours that she wants to work), decreasing the amount of energy available for paid work, as well as making work itself more expensive (childcare is an additional overhead expense).
The end result of this is that women have higher poverty rats.
https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../5103/the-straight-facts-on-women-in-poverty/
“Poverty rates are higher for women than men. In 2007,13.8 percent of females were poor compared to 11.1 percent of men.”
“Women are poorer than men in all racial and ethnic groups. Recent data shows that 26.5 percent of African American women are poor compared to 22.3 percent of African American men; 23.6 percent of Hispanic women are poor compared to 19.6 percent of Hispanic men; 10.7 percent of Asian women are poor compared to 9.7 percent of Asian men; and 11.6 percent of white women are poor compared to 9.4 percent of white men.”
“Only a quarter of all adult women (age 18 and older) with incomes below the poverty line are single mothers. Over half of all poor adult women—54 percent—are single with no dependent children.”
“Elderly women are far more likely to be poor than elderly men. Thirteen percent of women over 75 years old are poor compared to 6 percent of men.”
“Poverty rates for males and females are the same throughout childhood, but increase for women during their childbearing years and again in old age. The poverty gap between women and men widens significantly between ages 18 and 24—20.6 percent of women are poor at that age, compared to 14.0 percent of men. The gap narrows, but never closes, throughout adult life, and it more than doubles during the elderly years.”
Becoming a mother nukes a woman’s earning potential by interrupting and slowing her educational and/or employment progress, suppressing the number of hours she can work (let alone the number of hours that she wants to work), decreasing the amount of energy available for paid work, as well as making work itself more expensive (childcare is an additional overhead expense).
The end result of this is that women have higher poverty rats.
https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../5103/the-straight-facts-on-women-in-poverty/
“Poverty rates are higher for women than men. In 2007,13.8 percent of females were poor compared to 11.1 percent of men.”
“Women are poorer than men in all racial and ethnic groups. Recent data shows that 26.5 percent of African American women are poor compared to 22.3 percent of African American men; 23.6 percent of Hispanic women are poor compared to 19.6 percent of Hispanic men; 10.7 percent of Asian women are poor compared to 9.7 percent of Asian men; and 11.6 percent of white women are poor compared to 9.4 percent of white men.”
“Only a quarter of all adult women (age 18 and older) with incomes below the poverty line are single mothers. Over half of all poor adult women—54 percent—are single with no dependent children.”
“Elderly women are far more likely to be poor than elderly men. Thirteen percent of women over 75 years old are poor compared to 6 percent of men.”
“Poverty rates for males and females are the same throughout childhood, but increase for women during their childbearing years and again in old age. The poverty gap between women and men widens significantly between ages 18 and 24—20.6 percent of women are poor at that age, compared to 14.0 percent of men. The gap narrows, but never closes, throughout adult life, and it more than doubles during the elderly years.”
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