Dramatic priest

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prof55

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We have a visiting priest who is rather dramatic; lots of “feeling” in the Scripture readings, dramatic inflections in the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and his rhythm in the Profession of Faith is downright distracting - and doesn’t mesh with the congregation.

For me at least, this draws my attention away from the true purpose of Mass, and toward his “theatrics”. I can understand this sort of expression in the homily, but I don’t think it belongs in the Liturgy.

I don’t doubt his sincerity in the slightest, and I understand that emotions are involved, but I’d like to hear from others on this topic. Should Mass be “monotone”, or are more “interpretive” approaches acceptable?

Thank you,
G.
 
prof55 said:
Should Mass be “monotone”, or are more “interpretive” approaches acceptable?
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Good question! (although I don’t think the alternative to “interpretive” is “monotone”, but I understand what you mean)

I’ll start with an example. I have the occassion to pray Liturgy of the Hours with a group regularly. At first, I had the temptation to want to put my feeling into the recitation of the Psalms. I didn’t want it to become some hum-drum form of prayer that I recited mindlessly and without conviction. I quickly realized, though, that reading the Psalms this way really threw off everyone else.

It wasn’t until I had the opportunity to participate in the chanting of the Liturgy of the Hours with a group of seminarians that I realized the the Liturgy of the Hours has its’ own natural rhythm (1st line inflect up, second line inflect down). When I went back to my regular group (many of whom would have no idea of this) I realized that they already were praying the Psalms with this rhythm without even realizing it. It is not monotone, but it is regular.

Your experience of this particular Mass gives evidence to this (and I have experienced the same thing with certain priests at Mass). When the priest breaks from the regular rhythm, it is noticeable and it throws people off.

Of course, I would assume the best of motives. I think one of the reasons a priest might do this is because it is noticeable. In his mind, it is a way to force people to approach the words anew and with fresh ears. It is a way to shake people from lethargic participation in the Mass, and move them to be more engaged in the great Mystery of the Mass.

Now, I think that such motives may be noble, but I don’t think the desired result is achieved (and, in fact, many times the opposite occurs). Mainly because the distractions don’t usually lead the person to focus more closely on the words. At least for me, I’m more likely to be thinking “What is going on with this guy?” rather than to pay closer attention to what is actually being said. Maybe there are other people not like me for whom this approach is effective. 🤷 I have a hard time believing that, but I wouldn’t rule it out.
 
It may just be that the visiting priest has a different ethnic or cultural background. Even if he doesn’t have an accent, he may be used to a different rhythm of speech.
 
I think that there’s not just one way for a priest to say mass. No one can please everyone, and your parish may have others who really enjoy his presentation. For those who have been to mass for years, the words are in our heads, so we can reflect on them regardless of how they are presented. I’m sure the priest also put thought and prayer into this presentation of the mass, so this is not a knee jerk reaction.

In short, this is IMHO. I don’t think this board, or any parish, is going to agree 100% on any given type of presentation, so this will always be open to discussion.
 
The Novus Ordo makes it very tempting for the priest to try to show off and make a show of Mass. This is a result of facing the people rather than God. In fact, in churches where the tabernacle is still in the center of the sanctuary, the priest actually literally has his back to Our Lord the whole time. Interesting.
 
prof55 said:
We have a visiting priest who is rather dramatic; lots of “feeling” in the Scripture readings, dramatic inflections in the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and his rhythm in the Profession of Faith is downright distracting - and doesn’t mesh with the congregation.

For me at least, this draws my attention away from the true purpose of Mass, and toward his “theatrics”. I can understand this sort of expression in the homily, but I don’t think it belongs in the Liturgy.

I don’t doubt his sincerity in the slightest, and I understand that emotions are involved, but I’d like to hear from others on this topic. Should Mass be “monotone”, or are more “interpretive” approaches acceptable?

Thank you,
G.
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This varies priest by priest, parish by parish. There are some parishes where this style would fit better than others. All parish communities are unique to themselves. This style can reach some people and turn others off. Also, the montone/interpretive styles can also turn people off (even almost putting them to sleep). I see it as acceptable, but if he was a regular priest instead of a visiting one, he would learn the ins and outs of his own parish and know the realistic limits. Visiting priests do not always know what they are getting into each weekend with the makeup of the pews or some local traditions.
 
The Mass isn’t a show. The priest should diminish and make room for Christ.

Turn the altar around - it helps.
 
We had a priest who had a flair for the dramatic, and I rather enjoyed him. Not everyone did. I remember seeing some of the people sitting on the front row JUMP when he raised his voice to make a point during a homily. I went to an Easter Vigil Mass that he concelebrated and he sang the Exsultet (sp?) from memory. It was absolutely beautiful.

Our pastor at the time was one who was rather soft spoken and “monotone”, so it was an interesting change.

Our current pastor does not read in a monotone. He uses inflection, voices, when he reads the gospel. Often, I just put away the misselette and just listen. I find that it adds meaning to the scripture more than just a dry reading. Sometimes I can picture Christ in front of us preaching to his disciples.

Just me.
 
Dauphin said:
The Mass isn’t a show. The priest should diminish and make room for Christ.

Turn the altar around - it helps.
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This is really true. The priest as the focal point of attention, facing everyone else, can get the impression that he is on stage and is there so people can see him perform. I have seen many priests who seem to think their purpose is to entertain, rather than stand in the place of Christ and offer solemn sacrifice. They tell stories, interupt prayers to crack a joke, call for rounds of applause. They think they are on stage rather than the altar.

I got the impression from the one who was the worst, interupting every Mass several times to tell jokes that were not funny, that he truly thought his job was to be a commedian. I knew something was wrong and eventually went elsewhere, because he was such an annoyance at Mass. He ended up being suspended for misbehavior and the diocese eventually paid off millions to settle.
 
grandfather said:
This is really true. The priest as the focal point of attention, facing everyone else, can get the impression that he is on stage and is there so people can see him perform. I have seen many priests who seem to think their purpose is to entertain, rather than stand in the place of Christ and offer solemn sacrifice. They tell stories, interupt prayers to crack a joke, call for rounds of applause. They think they are on stage rather than the altar.

I got the impression from the one who was the worst, interupting every Mass several times to tell jokes that were not funny, that he truly thought his job was to be a commedian. I knew something was wrong and eventually went elsewhere, because he was such an annoyance at Mass. He ended up being suspended for misbehavior and the diocese eventually paid off millions to settle.
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How interesting.

I just watched the video of the TLM, and my impression was of a choreographed dance on a stage. Entertaining and showy, and IMO, it detracted from Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. JMO, of course.

I guess it’s how you perceive things, isn’t it.

I think it’s wrong to imply that just because a priest tells jokes or is dramatic in his presentation, that he will end up misbehaving (sexual?) and getting his diocese sued. That’s really going too far.
 
Cat said:
I think it’s wrong to imply that just because a priest tells jokes or is dramatic in his presentation, that he will end up misbehaving (sexual?) and getting his diocese sued. That’s really going too far.
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I did not imply that at all. What I said was a priest who constantly told jokes and felt a need to be funny during the Mass ended up having a secret dark life that got exposed. His antics on the altar were a sign to me that something was wrong. That proved to be true for him, and many others also have fallen.

Everything we encounter in this life is caused. When a marriage fails there is a reason. When a priest falls there is a reason. If a person is unable to keep his marriage vows of love, honor, fidelity, respect until death, there is a lack of grace to be able to keep them. If a priest is unable to keep his voes the same is true. Everything is caused.

When there is spiritual sickness, when things are not well there are causes and signs and symptoms. The causes may not be visible, but the symptoms of illness are usually visible. Sometimes we don’t want to see them. No parent wants to believe his child is on drugs and many ignore the signals. We look the other way.

The Mass whether old or new is definitely choreopgraphed. Every move has meaning. Abuses come from innovation, taking liberties with the norms, experimenting and changing precribed forms. Some people feel that this is necessary.

Different priests say Mass differently. Some are reverent and some are flamboyant showmen. Some are irreverent. Some are obviously distracted, somewhere else. Some priests are holy men and others are unholy. The flamoyant showmen generally have issues.
 
Grandfather:

I take no issue with the statement that “everything is caused”. But I have serious doubts that any man is able to reliably judge the “signs and symptoms” to the level you claim.
 
There is an interesting article in the current issue of Homelitics and Pastoral Review on speaking with a focus on reading and to some degree on the homily. I found it interesting. I don’t know if it’s available online, I get the hard copy. My sister got me a subscription for Christmas.
 
prof55 said:
Grandfather:

I take no issue with the statement that “everything is caused”. But I have serious doubts that any man is able to reliably judge the “signs and symptoms” to the level you claim.
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That is a pretty broad statement. Some people can tell when something is bothering another person and to different degrees.

My wife can just about read my mind. When I come in the door at the end of the day she does not have to ask how things are going. No matter what kind of day I have I am always quiet. I guess its all in the body language she picks up. She can tell if I have had a bad dream at night.

In a parish I belonged to there was a transitional deacon. I could tell things were not right somewhere, but certainly could not tell specifically what it was. He ended up in the hospital and almost died and the story was that he had an allergic reaction to an over the counter medication. I did not believe this and thought that he tried to commit suicide.

A month or two later he fell apart and threatened the pastor with a gun. I could tell for some time that there was a lot of stress in their relationship and told the pastor I knew something was going on and I did not believe the allergic reaction story. That is when he fessed up and told me that it was a suicide attempt intentional overdose that was covered up.

There are also priests and lay people who exhibit signs of holiness.
 
Sadly I too have seen priests behave “theatrically” during the Mass, even asking people in the pews questions during a homily and waiting for them to yell back a response. They act in a way that places all eyes on them, and attention is drawn away from Christ. It makes me terribly sad, and of course I pray for them to change. Many days I wish the priests were facing the altar like in days gone by when the Mass was said in Latin. There was such reverance in the Mass then. And the temptation to pride when facing the people was not present, because the priests attention was also on the altar of Christ.
Once my husband and I were at a neighboring church for Mass on Sunday. They had a visiting priest from a very Catholic country. The church was full of people from his culture.
This priest was so irreverant that I was sick inside. My heart was pounding and I wanted to run out of the church, so I prayed and asked Mary what to do. My answer was to stay and be possibly the only two people in the whole Mass “adoring Jesus”. So that is what we did. At the Eucharistic part of the Mass we fell to our knees and stayed there for the remainder of the Mass.I kept praying over and over again in silence, “Jesus please forgive them, Jesus please forgive them,…”
It was one of the most painful experiences of my life. Even at the Eucharistic part of the Mass, the priest was still goofing around and getting the congregation to laugh. I was dumb founded. My Jesus mercy.
 
There’s a big difference between having a different speech pattern and taking improper liberties with the liturgy. There is good choreography and bad choreography. We had a visiting priest from Africa once, who had a very thick accent. His inflections and the almost singsong way he spoke sounded funny to our ears, but it was obvious that this was a very holy priest and had a great respect for the liturgy. On the other hand, I have definatly been to Masses where the priest spoke strangely in order to be ‘different’ and drew the attention to himself rather than the liturgy. Not every way of doing things is right or good, even if people do like or prefer it.

The Mass in either form should be choreographed well. It is a ceremony. Not a gathering or meeting. If effort is taken to make it flow and work well, and be reverent, it shows. One thing in particular that I’ve noticed is that the priest and mnlinisters putting their hands together as in prayer instead of just at their sides or grasped in front of them, adds tremendously to the feel of awe and reverence, no matter what kind of music is used. In many cases, the little things such as inflection are the most important when it comes to the liturgy being done properly.
 
My comments had nothing to do with an accent. This priest spoke very good english. He was telling people to turn to each other during the mass and introduce themselves, shake hands, etc. He did this on more than one occassion. He was quite literally making jokes on the altar, so they would laugh, and they did-all through the Mass.
We live in a very cosmopolitan area with many visiting priests from all over the world. Many of them struggle with the english language, yet most of them are also very holy priests. I delight in any priest who is holy, I don’t care what part of the world he comes from, or how thick his accent is.
Part of the problem with irreverance is also about formation. Some priests either had a bad example growing up of what it is to be Catholic, or they attended a lousy seminary, or both.
We have a lovely priest from Nigeria in one of our local parishes. He is such a good priest and always so reverant.He always keeps the Mass centered on Christ. From what he has said, I think his mother was a very good example to him growing up, and I am positive that he had a very holy priest in his parish growing up, the good roots in him are very deep and strong.
I agree with you, when priests have reverant posture on the altar it sure makes a difference too.
 
Lily_Valley said:
My comments had nothing to do with an accent. This priest spoke very good english. He was telling people to turn to each other during the mass and introduce themselves, shake hands, etc. He did this on more than one occassion. He was quite literally making jokes on the altar, so they would laugh, and they did-all through the Mass.
We live in a very cosmopolitan area with many visiting priests from all over the world. Many of them struggle with the english language, yet most of them are also very holy priests. I delight in any priest who is holy, I don’t care what part of the world he comes from, or how thick his accent is.
Part of the problem with irreverance is also about formation. Some priests either had a bad example growing up of what it is to be Catholic, or they attended a lousy seminary, or both.
We have a lovely priest from Nigeria in one of our local parishes. He is such a good priest and always so reverant.He always keeps the Mass centered on Christ. From what he has said, I think his mother was a very good example to him growing up, and I am positive that he had a very holy priest in his parish growing up, the good roots in him are very deep and strong.
I agree with you, when priests have reverant posture on the altar it sure makes a difference too.
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Oh I wasn’t responding to you! Sorry 😊 I was referring to the posts farther up, where they said that ‘people just have a different way of speaking’. My point was that there is a difference from just speaking differently and being a showy goof-off and disrespecting the Mass. Not everything is acceptable.
 
Lily_Valley said:
Sadly I too have seen priests behave “theatrically” during the Mass, even asking people in the pews questions during a homily and waiting for them to yell back a response. They act in a way that places all eyes on them, and attention is drawn away from Christ. It makes me terribly sad, and of course I pray for them to change. Many days I wish the priests were facing the altar like in days gone by when the Mass was said in Latin. There was such reverance in the Mass then. And the temptation to pride when facing the people was not present, because the priests attention was also on the altar of Christ.
Once my husband and I were at a neighboring church for Mass on Sunday. They had a visiting priest from a very Catholic country. The church was full of people from his culture.
This priest was so irreverant that I was sick inside. My heart was pounding and I wanted to run out of the church, so I prayed and asked Mary what to do. My answer was to stay and be possibly the only two people in the whole Mass “adoring Jesus”. So that is what we did. At the Eucharistic part of the Mass we fell to our knees and stayed there for the remainder of the Mass.I kept praying over and over again in silence, “Jesus please forgive them, Jesus please forgive them,…”
It was one of the most painful experiences of my life. Even at the Eucharistic part of the Mass, the priest was still goofing around and getting the congregation to laugh. I was dumb founded. My Jesus mercy.
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The reason this was painful to you is you realized that such behavior is sacreligious. The Mass brings us to the sacrifice of Calvary. There Jesus forgave those who mocked Him and crucified Him, those for whom He gave Himself. “Father, forgive them. They know not what they do”. There were also those there with Mary, mourning and weeping with her.
 
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