DRE believes women should be priests and doctrine needs to change

[JacktheCatholic]

Paul you made good points in my opinion and I too beleive that some things are open to discussion and from what little I know about Vatican II we are allowed to make some minor changes based on Rubrics I beleive.

But when the DRE and I spoke she also mentioned that Vatican II did away with things that were a standard before Vatican II. From a Rubrics stand point I can see why the Church allowed things to be more modern but I disagree with her statement that it “did away” with things. Things like kneeling and having Latin are still acceptable. When I pressed this point and asked point blank “did it do away with these things or did it allow different things?” Her response was that Vatican II did not “do away” with things (as she previously stated) but “Highly encouraged” change.

In my opinion our DRE is not simply thinking that women as priests is a possibility in some future date (though I do not beleive that is the caseand women will never be Priests) but that the Church is wrong. For a Catholic to think the Church is wrong is to say God lied since Jesus promised the Spirit of Truth would always guide and protect the Church. So it is my opinion that not only our DRE but the Head Priest and others have strayed from the Truth and need help in being brought back.

The DRE has been with this church since the start or about 20 years ago. And our Head Priest was practicing General Absolution without Confession and our Bishop ordered our Head Priest to stop. So you see, there is a history here as well.

Peace and God Bless.

Jack

 

[Paul_from_MA]

If it is contrary to Christ then why is it worthy of discussion?

Excellent question! Here’s the answer: Every properly articulated doctrine of Christ’s Church is compassionate, reasonable and life-affirming – and it is worth examining in order to dig down into the truth of it. It is within the truth that we find the love.

To suppress discussion is to suppress the pursuit of the truth. It’s not enough to say, “Only men can be priests”. It’s necessary to express this belief in a way that affirms men, women, the laity, the sacraments, the dialogue between the Church and non-Catholic communions and the dialogue between the Church and the world. If we don’t talk about it, we won’t know about it – and what a loss that would be!

As you can see, I’m not arguing for women priests – I’m arguing in favor of a ‘communication style’ that invites questions rather than exasperates the curious.

I’ll go further than that. When people say, “I think women should be priests”, they’re really saying, “I think women should be accorded as much respect as men”. Which is a good thing. If you really probe you learn a lot about what’s really bugging them. It’s usually things that won’t be “solved” by ordaining women. Of course, it takes patience and listening to get to that point. You also learn a lot about what people think regarding the relationship between the clergy and the laity but you don’t get to the heart of it until you assist them in finding the place where God is calling them to a one-on-one.

When it dawns on you how deeply the Lord wants to commune with you, you stop feeling ‘left out’ or ‘kept out’ by certain practices of the Church. That, I’m sure, is the conversation this DRE wants to enjoy.

From my point of view a far bigger issue than the issue of female ordination is the issue of people in the laity feeling ‘less than’ those in the clergy. How are we going to solve that problem? By ordaining EVERYONE??? When you study church documents about the priesthood of the people you discover that we already HAVE. That’s good food for discussion.

 

[fix]

Excellent question! Here’s the answer: Every properly articulated doctrine of Christ’s Church is compassionate, reasonable and life-affirming – and it is worth examining in order to dig down into the truth of it. It is within the truth that we find the love.

I agree to grow deeper in understanding of the teaching is very good. What I often see is not an attempt to understand better, but an attempt to disprove and over turn. I am not thinking of you in this matter.

To suppress discussion is to suppress the pursuit of the truth. It’s not enough to say, “Only men can be priests”. It’s necessary to express this belief in a way that affirms men, women, the laity, the sacraments, the dialogue between the Church and non-Catholic communions and the dialogue between the Church and the world. If we don’t talk about it, we won’t know about it – and what a loss that would be!

It is not so much suppressing discussion as it is suppressing the false idea the teaching may change. The debate is over. If we want to learn why the teaching is as it is that is great. It is like many other areas. There is constant call for dialogue on issues that can never change. Dialogue presupposes there will be a change and a sort of compromise. That is not good.

As you can see, I’m not arguing for women priests – I’m arguing in favor of a ‘communication style’ that invites questions rather than exasperates the curious.

Questions are good. The problem is often the questions are really a form of obstinate doubt masquerading as questions.

I’ll go further than that. When people say, “I think women should be priests”, they’re really saying, “I think women should be accorded as much respect as men”. Which is a good thing. If you really probe you learn a lot about what’s really bugging them. It’s usually things that won’t be “solved” by ordaining women. Of course, it takes patience and listening to get to that point. You also learn a lot about what people think regarding the relationship between the clergy and the laity but you don’t get to the heart of it until you assist them in finding the place where God is calling them to a one-on-one.

I agree that is the case at times. It goes much deeper. In order to grasp this issue one must first accept the authority of the Church.

From my point of view a far bigger issue than the issue of female ordination is the issue of people in the laity feeling ‘less than’ those in the clergy. How are we going to solve that problem? By ordaining EVERYONE??? When you study church documents about the priesthood of the people you discover that we already HAVE. That’s good food for discussion.

Well, yes we are all priests in one sense. I think the problem is our culture has a false understanding of authority and equality.

 

[seek]

Let me get this all straight. The infallible teaching of the
RCC is that women cannot be Priests. Is that correct?
Anyone? Please?

 

[fix]

Let me get this all straight. The infallible teaching of the
RCC is that women cannot be Priests. Is that correct?
Anyone? Please?

Correct.

 

[seek]

Thank you. Now, this became Dogma or Doctrine (I’m not
sure of the difference), when? When JPII affirmed the Magisterium’s teaching or before? And is there an actual date
that something like this teaching becomes “official”?

 

[fix]

Thank you. Now, this became Dogma or Doctrine (I’m not
sure of the difference), when? When JPII affirmed the Magisterium’s teaching or before? And is there an actual date
that something like this teaching becomes “official”?

This is from the Vatican website:

APOSTOLIC LETTER
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION
TO MEN ALONE

1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.
From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

 

[Tomster]

At our church this last Saturday we had our two little ones practicing for a play for the Christmas Mass on the 24th. Well afterwards I spoke to one of the ladies there and I mentioned that most Catholics today do not know what it means to be Catholic, that the education of young Catholics is so bad that I have a buddy that is a craddle Catholic turned Pentacost and that I know more about Catholicism and I became Catholic eight years ago in my thirties and learned on my own most of what I know today.

Well little did I know (until after the conversation) that this lady is the Director of Education at our church. :banghead:

Well the discussion changed to how the Episcopal church has women priests when I was trying to make my point and she said “good for them”. Even though I did not know she was the DRE I found this remark to be very disturbing. She plainly made me aware that women not being able to be ordained to priesthood is a doctrine which can be changed and should be. My feelings from her were that this is what she was attempting to further in our little church. Since my son has started Catechism there I am even more disturbed by the whole conversation with our DRE.

I know the Catechism (1577) teaches only a man (vir) or men (viri) can be ordained as a priest and St Augustine wrote as much. But I am pulled between wanting to rectify this as best I can by attending January’s council meeting and speaking out and/or speaking to the head Priest if necessary or leaving and being a member at another Catholic church.

What the DRE is supporting seems like heresy to me.

Am I wrong in my thoughts or am I simply not being tolerant? And if I have justification for my thoughts and/or feelings what actions should I take?

Suggested Christmas gifts for your DRE.

www.cafepress.com/newoxford/969556

 

[netmilsmom]

Suggested Christmas gifts for your DRE.

www.cafepress.com/newoxford/969556

Oh my Goodness! Those are a trip!

 

[Chris-WA]

Every argument against women priests that I have ever heard, including every one that has been posted here, is from someone who finds the idea personally abhorrent and is hiding behind any excuse he can find to bolster his own sense of repugnance. The burden of refuting this assertion without resorting to stale, flimsy arguments is on them, not me. Alas, even popes are not above this.

jbuck, though it’s fine to have critical thought, you seem to be lacking trust in the pope, who is the final earthly authority of all things Catholic, like it or not. To be Catholic is to believe that the bishop of Rome is truly Peter’s successor and thus holds the keys of authority to bind and loose. So at some point you have to humble yourself to the authority of the pope and trust him. In this case, JPII made it quite clear that women cannot and will not be priests. No doubt Benedict will teach the same, as all his predecessors have as well. So you see, there is no burden on the pope to provide you or anyone else with arguments in favor of what they teach. Sometimes we forget that the Church is not a democracy–it’s a kingdom with the pope in the position of prime minister, who is given authority to act on behalf of Jesus Christ. Many Catholics have forgotten this very important fact, and therefore think they can argue against the positions of the pope when they should simply submit to them in the trust that the Holy Spirit will continue to guide Peter’s successor.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I wrote e-mails to the DRE and the head priest on Dec 10th and still no response. And at the last dress rehearsal for our kids the DRE did not appear.

I wonder why there has been no response???

My wife suggested that Advent is a busy time for the church and I will get a response the first fo the year.

God Bless and Peace.

Jack

 

[netmilsmom]

I wrote e-mails to the DRE and the head priest on Dec 10th and still no response. And at the last dress rehearsal for our kids the DRE did not appear.

I wonder why there has been no response???

My wife suggested that Advent is a busy time for the church and I will get a response the first fo the year.

God Bless and Peace.

Jack

Geez, I hope you wife is right.
Otherwise be prepared to become the Pariah at the Parish.
Some people don’t like the light of accountablity shining on them.