Drugs

  • Thread starter Thread starter Neithan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Neithan

Guest
The Catholic Cathechism says the following:
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.
Ok. So, I use drugs occasionally, and in such a way that it does not endanger my health. Alcohol, which is also a drug, is allowed in moderation. What about other drugs, (outside of nicotine and caffeine) except for the fact that they might be illegal, makes their use a “grave offense”? What constitutes “therapeutic grounds”? Are drugs condemned by the church just because they are illegal as judged by the state law, or because God Himself condemns their use (and how do we know this)? Like alcohol, aren’t drugs in moderation OK?
 
Not a moral theologian, just passing by…

But I think that, like so many things in the moral arena, the why we do something is very important.

While physical health concerns are a factor, there are other “health” concerns. Perhaps any drug, including alcohol, used to escape reality would be “unhealthy” in a moral sense.

Your argument for using drugs as long as they don’t affect your physical health could be used to have sex outside marriage as long as it was physically safe.
 
Your argument for using drugs as long as they don’t affect your physical health could be used to have sex outside marriage as long as it was physically safe.
Well… I wouldn’t equate drugs with sex. Sex outside marriage isn’t a sin because it’s physically unhealthy, which seems to be the stance taken by the Church on drugs. Alcohol is allowed in moderation for social/recreational purposes. A lot of drugs are used for these very same purposes. Say hypothetically that drugs were not illegal; as long as one is careful enough, and physical health isn’t endangered, would it still be a sin?
Perhaps any drug, including alcohol, used to escape reality would be “unhealthy” in a moral sense.
Right, but what if it’s used simply to enhance a social atmosphere?
 
40.png
Neithan:
The Catholic Cathechism says the following:

Ok. So, I use drugs occasionally, and in such a way that it does not endanger my health. Alcohol, which is also a drug, is allowed in moderation. What about other drugs, (outside of nicotine and caffeine) except for the fact that they might be illegal, makes their use a “grave offense”? What constitutes “therapeutic grounds”? Are drugs condemned by the church just because they are illegal as judged by the state law, or because God Himself condemns their use (and how do we know this)? Like alcohol, aren’t drugs in moderation OK?
If I have a single glass of beer I’m not getting drunk. If I have 12 beers I am which is sinful. If I pick up the old glass pipe and smoke some crack that is a whole different matter. What drugs are you using? Are you trying to find out if God thinks that marijuana should be legal? Pot tends to lead to things like Heroin in the end. We all know that life is tough, if we need an escape we should get more sleep and do things like working out or hiking. You can’t smoke pot in a manor like having a beer. You are either stoned or you are not and it’s a sin to get stoned as far as I’m concerned. I smoked a little pot in the brilliance of my youth and it was nothing like having a beer or a glass of wine.

-D
 
40.png
Neithan:
The Catholic Cathechism says the following:

Ok. So, I use drugs occasionally, and in such a way that it does not endanger my health. Alcohol, which is also a drug, is allowed in moderation. What about other drugs, (outside of nicotine and caffeine) except for the fact that they might be illegal, makes their use a “grave offense”? What constitutes “therapeutic grounds”? Are drugs condemned by the church just because they are illegal as judged by the state law, or because God Himself condemns their use (and how do we know this)? Like alcohol, aren’t drugs in moderation OK?
Do you honestly think the Church would affirm illegal acts on the grounds that you 'aren’t endangering health?" Apparently enough of society has concluded that these drugs should be either illegal or carefully monitored by the medical profession to make their use a violation of law. Do you believe you know more or are completley aware of all possibilitites of endangering your health?

You may think you can control the use of these drugs (and I have no clue whether you are talking about marijuana or heroin or meth) but the reality is that there are thousands of addicts out there who thought the same thing. There is usually a valid reason for the illegality of certain drugs. The cops aren’t just out there to spoil your fun.

Further another real issue is that in using illegal drugs you are helping to support a very destructive and violent underground economy. Far from being a ‘victimless’ crime, drugs are a major reason for homelessness, domestic abuse, and property crime. Even if YOU don’t engage in these acts, realize you are supporting people who do by buying drugs from them.

I see every day the horrible impact of drugs on nice people like you who thought they could keep it together. Don’t take a chance for a transitory and non life affirming moment of pleasure.

Lisa N
 
Neithan,
My point, which I apparently didn’t make too well, is you are making the assumption that the church’s aversion to drugs is solely on health grounds…which it’s not.

And I think the why of doing anything, the real why, is crucial to deciding the morality of the act. Why are you taking drugs?
 
:mad: Sounds to me like you are looking for someone to say it’s ok to do something YOU KNOW is wrong. Illicit drug use is not something anyone should condone…ever. Did you ever see what “just a little cocaine” does to a baby ?
Kathy
 
And it’s not all about you! Think about who sold you the drug and who sold it to that person. Where did it originate? What are the living conditions of the people who planted and harvested the particular plants from which your drug of choice came? Any lives lost? Think beyond yourself.
There is a moral responsibility involved here as well as a legal issue.
 
40.png
Neithan:
Say hypothetically that drugs were not illegal; as long as one is careful enough, and physical health isn’t endangered, would it still be a sin?
Like would it be a sin for a person in Amsterdam to go to a bar and smoke some weed? I should think not. Would some people find it offensive? Yes, just like they called Jesus a drunkard.

Alan
 
Lisa N:
Apparently enough of society has concluded that these drugs should be either illegal or carefully monitored by the medical profession to make their use a violation of law.
True, and it all started with a vengeance after the propaganda film “Reefer Madness” was released in 1937. If you haven’t seen it, you should; you’d know why so many people are absolutely hysterical about pot.
There is usually a valid reason for the illegality of certain drugs.
The reasons for any law are 100% political; whether there are practical benefits to any given politically expedient solution is another story.
The cops aren’t just out there to spoil your fun.
No. They are out there to do their job. We pay taxes to pay the police to enforce laws that we do not intend to obey. It’s a miracle they aren’t all crazy.
Further another real issue is that in using illegal drugs you are helping to support a very destructive and violent underground economy. Far from being a ‘victimless’ crime, drugs are a major reason for homelessness, domestic abuse, and property crime. Even if YOU don’t engage in these acts, realize you are supporting people who do by buying drugs from them.
This is one of my personal pet peeves. Drug usage, in itself, does not cause all of that; the drug war itself is a required component. We have seen this before; alcohol did not create organized crime; prohibition did. That’s why prohibition was repealed.
I see every day the horrible impact of drugs on nice people like you who thought they could keep it together. Don’t take a chance for a transitory and non life affirming moment of pleasure.
I can’t argue with that advice, which I’m certain is heartfelt.

Alan
 
Well, my mother was always big on showing me concrete evidence of what drugs do to your brain, even in occasional use. Now, I cannot speak for all drugs unilaterally with this one example, but I saw the pictures of a CAT scan, one from a person who never used drugs, one from somebody who only occasionally used ecstasy. There was an incredible difference between the two pictures. I cannot give you the exact medical rundown of what was going on there, but basically it showed which parts of the brain had lots some or all function in the drug user. You would be surprised what just a small amount of drugs can do to you. So, as for your “it is healthy to use in moderation, and thus is not sinful on at least those grounds” argument, it really isn’t true. Many many drugs cause unfathomable changes in your body with just the first use.

Eamon
 
The reasons for any law are 100% political; whether there are practical benefits to any given politically expedient solution is another story.
Well yes, it is political in the sense that government enacts laws. Are you trying to suggest that all laws are partisan? Like posting speed limits to deter people from blowing through school zones at 75mph is sleezy partisan legistlating?

The bottom line is that no matter the motivations for illegalizing recreational drugs, even if you can show their imprudence, they are not unreasonable or intrisicly immoral, and are therefore binding. The drug-laws-create-drug-problems in no way excuses one from obeying them.

Scott
 
Eamon,

Well said. I agree with you. My son told me he had seen CAT scan photos of ecstasy, too. One problem is I think many people don’t trust the words of those who are trying to prevent them from making a mistake. Intellectually we say no, but desire says yes. It takes information, the right decision, and self-control.

Scott,
Scott Waddell:
Well yes, it is political in the sense that government enacts laws. Are you trying to suggest that all laws are partisan? Like posting speed limits to deter people from blowing through school zones at 75mph is sleezy partisan legistlating?
No, not that they are all partisan, just that they are all political. I have the view that most politicians today couldn’t separate the politics from their honest opinion on what is good for the people even if they honestly tried to. Most legislators don’t even read the bills they sign; for example the Patriot Act was signed into law before a single legislator had even read it.

That isn’t to say they don’t do some things right. After all, the voters demand a certain few obvious things like not allowing traffic to go 75 in school zones. Just remember, though, that if one of those legislators went through a school zone at 75 they would not get a ticket because they don’t have to follow the laws they pass because they have Congressional immunity.

With regard to the topic at hand, I mostly wished to address your assertion that there is likely some merit in a law simply because it was done by popular/political demand. For further proof, I need only mention Roe v. Wade.
The bottom line is that no matter the motivations for illegalizing recreational drugs, even if you can show their imprudence, they are not unreasonable or intrisicly immoral, and are therefore binding.
First, they are binding in that they are the law of the land, enforceable by the executive branch of the United States.

Are you saying that they are morally binding as well as legally binding since they are not unreasonable or immoral and they derive from legitimate authority? If that’s your argument I think it’s a good one. Here we aren’t resolving whether it is intrinsically immoral to do drugs, just whether the law respects our opinions that it shouldn’t be the way it is.
The drug-laws-create-drug-problems in no way excuses one from obeying them.
You’re right; it doesn’t. Users, you are at your own risk; I am not condoning your behavior nor can I save you from the law if you choose to break it.

It does raise the question whether the drug laws are doing more harm than good. Also I’m quite certain that young people who have or would try drugs are not impressed with anti-drug PSAs which say they are responsible for terrorism. Young people are very defensive about being blamed for the world’s ills, especially in this case. It takes two to tango; the drug users and the drug user chasers.

Also when maybe a third of the population or more has a habit which requires them to hide from the police, they will be suspicious of and uncooperative with the police even though otherwise they are lawful. In this way, you could regard that as a societal ill that wouldn’t exist without the drug laws. If we quit making our poor police officers enforce unpopular and ineffective laws we would free up their time, quit putting them into no-win situations, and almost immediately slash the power of the drug trade in. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if legislators who promoted the repeal of anti-drug laws became terrorism targets.

Alan
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top