Duet--copyright infringement?

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Princess_Abby

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Hi, I was asked to sing harmony on a Rascal Flatt’s song “Bless the Broken Road” at a friend’s wedding. (Not Catholic.) About 450 will be at the wedding, if the size of the “venue” matters. Then at the reception, she wants me to sing a Chantal Kreviazuk song, “Feels Like Home to Me.”

When I asked him if he had permission for us to sing this song, and if permission had been obtained for the reception song, he seemed really surprised and said he wasn’t sure if we needed “permission.”

I have no idea about this or how to figure it out. When I did a lot of singing in the past, it was all in context of high school or college choir and I was never responsible for figuring out copyright laws.

Does anyone know about this?? Or how to go about finding out? Or does it matter? I would think it does, but I have no clue!

I sing at church now, but I know we “buy” that music…
 
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Princess_Abby:
Hi, I was asked to sing harmony on a Rascal Flatt’s song “Bless the Broken Road” at a friend’s wedding. (Not Catholic.) About 450 will be at the wedding, if the size of the “venue” matters. Then at the reception, she wants me to sing a Chantal Kreviazuk song, “Feels Like Home to Me.”

When I asked him if he had permission for us to sing this song, and if permission had been obtained for the reception song, he seemed really surprised and said he wasn’t sure if we needed “permission.”

I have no idea about this or how to figure it out. When I did a lot of singing in the past, it was all in context of high school or college choir and I was never responsible for figuring out copyright laws.

Does anyone know about this?? Or how to go about finding out? Or does it matter? I would think it does, but I have no clue!

I sing at church now, but I know we “buy” that music…
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Copyright laws are as complex as the individual infringements cited, but most of the rulings boil down to this: did the defendant make money off the infringement and would that money have ordinarily gone to the plaintiff had the infringement not occurred?

Your case does not apply at all, mainly because you are asking about a performance of a song, and a performance is never copyrighted — only the fixed form of a work, such as the sheet music. Since you are not selling the sheet music (I assume) or making excessive numbers of copies for profit; since you are not making money by recording a performance of a copyrighted work and then selling the recording, and since you are not charging admission for people to hear you sing (again, I assume) your case further does not apply. Break a leg!
 
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maendem:
Copyright laws are as complex as the individual infringements cited, but most of the rulings boil down to this: did the defendant make money off the infringement and would that money have ordinarily gone to the plaintiff had the infringement not occurred?

Your case does not apply at all, mainly because you are asking about a performance of a song, and a performance is never copyrighted — only the fixed form of a work, such as the sheet music. Since you are not selling the sheet music (I assume) or making excessive numbers of copies for profit; since you are not making money by recording a performance of a copyrighted work and then selling the recording, and since you are not charging admission for people to hear you sing (again, I assume) your case further does not apply. Break a leg!
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Thank you so much!

There is only one caveat (I hope I’m not being scrupulous). The wedding and reception will be taped by a professional videographer and then the video itself will be for sale to any guests or family members that want a copy of the ceremony or reception.

Does that count or is it okay because the primary purpose is not to make money from the song, but simply to buy a memento that captures both the ceremony and reception? ANd it’s the videographer making the money, not me or anyone else who is singing.
 
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Princess_Abby:
Thank you so much!

There is only one caveat (I hope I’m not being scrupulous). The wedding and reception will be taped by a professional videographer and then the video itself will be for sale to any guests or family members that want a copy of the ceremony or reception.

Does that count or is it okay because the primary purpose is not to make money from the song, but simply to buy a memento that captures both the ceremony and reception? ANd it’s the videographer making the money, not me or anyone else who is singing.
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Abby–Isn’t your father an attorney? What does he say?
 
**
§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works
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… the** owner of copyright **under this title **has the exclusive rights **to do and to authorize any of the following:
…
(4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;

Pretty clear, I think.**
 
Are people buying the video because you are singing? or because of the wedding.

If you can’t sing copyrighted songs, then what band could perform?

Most of the newer music sung at church is copyrighted…does the Church pay royalty everytime a copyrighted hymn is sung?
 
La Chiara:
Abby–Isn’t your father an attorney? What does he say?
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He is out of the country on international business. These people asked if I could commit or not by tomorrow. Thanks for your concern.
 
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Catilieth:
Are people buying the video because you are singing? or because of the wedding.

If you can’t sing copyrighted songs, then what band could perform?

Most of the newer music sung at church is copyrighted…does the Church pay royalty everytime a copyrighted hymn is sung?
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I don’t know. The choir I belong to has to buy the music from a publishing company and agree not to make copies, so they have to buy a copy for all of us for every song.

They guy who wants me to sing with him says the bride and groom would just have to buy copies for all instrumentalists and myself and it would be fine supposedly.

And…of course they are buying the video for the family memento–I’ve never met anyone who buys a video of a wedding who isn’t a mother, father, aunt, uncle or sibling of the bride or groom. 🙂
 
I just remember reading something, somewhere…long ago…that singing a copyrighted song depends on the size of the audience and who will be hearing the performance, as well as who will be benefiting from the performance.

I think I’m overthinking this, it doesn’t sound like it’s a big deal, which is good.
 
If this were a problem, then there are a whole lot of people ( me included) who owe money to a singer every time we sing along on the radio.
~ Kathy ~
 
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Catilieth:
Most of the newer music sung at church is copyrighted…does the Church pay royalty everytime a copyrighted hymn is sung?
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They are supposed to pay a royalty, yes. It is usually part of a package license.
 
Princess Abby
We pay a royalty for the music. We do not pay a royalty for performing the music. That I know for a fact. That is the usual copyright. Usually copyrights for performances are limited to plays, musicals and operas…works that are usually only performed for monetary gain.
For example, I sing with the Concert Choir. Almost all of the music we perform that is not “classical” is copyrighted. Even the classical music has a copyright on the printed edition. We pay to buy the musical score…the cost of buying the music pays the royalty for the copyright on the printed music. After that, we are free to perform it as often or as little as we want without paying any additional copyright royalties.
However, when we performed a Rogers musical, the score was not available for purchase…it is “rented” for the performance…we in essence paid a royalty for performing it, and all the music had to be returned after the performance.
 
Certainly performing the song is not a violation of copyright law. The videography does raise some questions, and if you are still uncertain when the time rolls around, request that it not be taped.

On a side note, and I know this is not your wedding, selling the wedding videos to guests is in rather poor taste anyway, and I’m definitely not the etiquette police. I’ll be committing some faux pas of my own. I wouldn’t suggest interfering with their wedding plans, but if asked… well, you know what I mean. They know whether their guests are etiquette snobs or not.
 
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vluvski:
Certainly performing the song is not a violation of copyright law. The videography does raise some questions, and if you are still uncertain when the time rolls around, request that it not be taped.

On a side note, and I know this is not your wedding, selling the wedding videos to guests is in rather poor taste anyway, and I’m definitely not the etiquette police. I’ll be committing some faux pas of my own. I wouldn’t suggest interfering with their wedding plans, but if asked… well, you know what I mean. They know whether their guests are etiquette snobs or not.
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I know, I thought that was kind of weird too, but when the bride called me she was saying how the videos (after her package fee of $2500 to have him film) are going to be $65 each, so I think she honestly just doesn’t want to pay for everyone to have a copy, though she will probably gift it to her parents and in-laws, I bet. There are 450 guests attending, after all (not that everyone would even want a copy, but from what I understand, they have a huge family on both sides, so…there might actually be a lot of purchasing). Also, the bride and groom won’t be taking money for it, they’ll be directly purchased from the videographer.

Although, it kind of reminds me of wedding pictures. The photographer usually sells a package to the bride and groom that includes an album, all the fees for the actual picture-taking, maybe sitting for an engagement portrait, etc. Some packages also include parent albums for both sets. But, they don’t include pictures for whoever happens to want a picture. Often times pictures are posted on the photographer’s website and can be ordered.

Sooo, who knows if it’s tacky or not, it’s just what they want to do, so…to each his own. 🙂
 
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Princess_Abby:
IAlthough, it kind of reminds me of wedding pictures. The photographer usually sells a package to the bride and groom that includes an album, all the fees for the actual picture-taking, maybe sitting for an engagement portrait, etc. Some packages also include parent albums for both sets. But, they don’t include pictures for whoever happens to want a picture. Often times pictures are posted on the photographer’s website and can be ordered. 🙂
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I’m pretty sure this practice was started by photographers looking to make a few extra bucks here and there, not people interested in whether the practice is proper. I’ll be doing it anyway, but still sending photos to most of the guests when we send out thank-yous.
Same goes for a cash bar at a wedding, or closing the bar partway through. “official” traditional etiquette says that if you can’t afford to pay for the entire bar, don’t open it in the first place. Most reception halls present this option because they know it means more money for them. Sorry to hijack your thread…
 
One more thing-

Your case seems like a gray area. If it was me, I wouldn’t sweat it too hard. Artists and composers ought to be a lot more concerned with this new fad of giving out wedding CDs as favors. The bride and groom compile a list of songs relevant to their relationship, or just ones they like, and then make a CD. Then they copy that CD for every single guest. Unless they’ve paid for every single copy of every single song, that’s a serious and blatant copyright violation. If, on the other hand, the couple is musically gifted and records their own CD of others’ works, it is perfectly fine to give out these copies as long as no one has to pay for them.
 
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vluvski:
I’m pretty sure this practice was started by photographers looking to make a few extra bucks here and there, not people interested in whether the practice is proper. I’ll be doing it anyway, but still sending photos to most of the guests when we send out thank-yous.
Same goes for a cash bar at a wedding, or closing the bar partway through. “official” traditional etiquette says that if you can’t afford to pay for the entire bar, don’t open it in the first place. Most reception halls present this option because they know it means more money for them. Sorry to hijack your thread…
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Actually, we did our thank you notes that way too…we picked a photo from the proofs and then immediately ordered what we needed and included it with the notes, though we didn’t even have the album yet.

I agree about the open bar thing too… 🙂 I don’t think I’ve ever been to a wedding where the bar wasn’t open and paid for. I’ve been to weddings where beer and an assortment of wines are offered, but no hard liquor. (Most Church Halls…well, in many dioceses, at least, have this rule–only beer and wine, no liquor, if the reception is being held at a facility they own.)

Anyway thanks for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut!
 
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wabrams:
Name one case where someone was successfully sued for singing at a wedding.
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Well I didn’t go into this in the OP, but I was kind of wondering how it applies to any situation…

I was a speaker at a recent youth group event where a lot of young adults were also present. After I spoke, some kid was playing around on his guitar and we were chatting. He asked if I sing, and I said yes, I do, and he started playing “Bless the Broken Road.” He asked if I could sing along, so I sang harmony to his melody. A lot of people ended up listening.

Well, the groom (who I don’t know at all) happened to hear this, and told his bride about it and as it happens, I know the guy in charge of the music for their wedding, so when the groom mentioned me to him, he was like, “oh, I used to sing with her in high school all the time!”

Anyway, I mean…how far does copyright infringement go? If the stuff that CuriousIL sited is applicable, where does it begin and end? I mean, I have no idea if that kid bought the music or if he just taught himself, and I’ve never bought the music either, I just happen to know the words and how to sing harmony and agreed to impromptu. But is that illegal? Does it even matter? How is it different than a wedding situation?
 
I work in Intellectual Property Administration. Anyone can sing a song - it is not a copyright issue. However, there are laws that cover the public performance of a song. There are 3 performance socieities in this county, ASCAP, BMI and SESAC. It is there job to collect money for the publisher and songwriter for public performance. Having said that, the law only applied to commercial establishments (concerts, bars, lounges, that type of thing), as well as for radio and TV broadcasts. This will not apply in your situation.

As for the video, there is a requirement that you get a synchronization license - but for private use of this type I wouldn’t worry about it. It has been my experience that the publishers don’t have time to deal with this sort of thing and would rather just not know about it.

Hope that helps. 😉
 
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