Dungeons and Dragons

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I am hoping to find some information here about D&D. My husband used to play before we even met. Now he wants to get back into playing it. In addition he wants our kids (ages 7 and 6) to play too. I think that D&D is no good. He sees it as harmless. Where does the church stand? Please help us. This subject is effecting our mariage. 😦
 
Dear Catholic Mom,
My sons all played when they were teenagers. They all lost interest later on, but at the time they were really enthralled with the game. I think it’s all based on mythological archetypes and seems to interest the male gender, rather like the game of chess does. I personally see nothing wrong with it. The few cases of unbalanced youths who went bonkers with it prove nothing, in my mind. You can find disturbed people who go to church every week too.

I think it’s an interesting intellectual pursuit myself. Some people like cribbage, others enjoy D&D. I think it’s nothing but a parlor game, no worse than monopoly, where you financially crush your opponent through greed and relentless acquisition of property.
 
D&D is mostly harmless. I say mostly because it depends on the individual playing it. It’s no different than playing dress up or cowboys & indians as long the players don’t take it any more seriously than that. It’s imaginative play and people who object to it usually have no idea what playing it is actually like (but they’ve heard terrible stories, most of which aren’t true, or they’ve seen that idiotic Tom Hanks movie, Mazes & Monsters).

If an individual has a history of dissociative tendencies, then playing D&D may be a bad idea, but then they really should be seeing a therapist or Psychologist regardless of what they’re doing in their spare time. So yeah, people with mental illness should be careful with Role Playing Games (RPG) and they should be careful with video games and they should be careful with books and lot of other things that can lead them further into their dissociative disorders and away from reality.

People who are healthy, mentally, should be able to play D&D with no ill effects.

And no, it’s not occultish. It’s fantasy, like Lord of the Rings or the Narnia Chronicles. If you don’t object to CS Lewis and Tolkien then there’s no inherent reason to object to D&D.

Be warned that some D&D material could be considered a little risque and is certainly not for kids, but it’s got nothing to do with it being D&D. Most D&D material is on the same level as Lord of the Rings as far as objectionable material is concerned. If your kids are old enough for Frodo, they should be fine with most of D&D and since their dad is going to be overseeing the games, that should help keep the objectionable material out of the equation.

It’s sad that this is interfering with your marriage, but really, most people’s objections to D&D and similar games are based on total ignorance of what these games actually are. Don’t let the Jack Chicks of the world scare you into thinking that your kids are channeling the devil or something.

I played RPGs when I was a kid (never D&D specifically, but same difference) and it never had any adverse effect on me. I don’t play anymore because I find playing pretend to be kind of boring (my real life has gotten interesting enough thank you), but for some people it’s a fun escape, like reading a fantasy novel but a much less passive and much more imaginative experience. I do think that playing RPGs as a kid has given me the ability to remember encyclopedic amounts of subject-specific knowledge and I put that to great use as a software developer (I lost count of how many machine languages I’ve learned, as well as enough technical miscellany to choke a moose with, and two foreign languages (espanol and nihongo)).

Really, playing a good RPG exercises a lot of different cognitive and creative skills. I’d say it’s downright healthy as long as you can remember that it’s all make believe and not get too caught up in it (which is easy for most people so long as they don’t have dissociative disorder).

I’d say let your kids play, but keep an eye on them. Don’t look for occult like behavior because that’s mostly a red herring. Look for the signs of dissociation, like increased day dreaming and decreased motivation and things like that. Kids who play RPGs may start to get emotionally caught up in the fantasy of the game (like kids who develop really complex imaginary friends and then can’t let go of them as they get older), but that’s usually pretty easy to prevent if you limit the time they get to play (treat it like you would a video game).

Only worry about your husband/kids if you think they suffer from mental illness or have a propensity toward it. Otherwise, D&D should be very family friendly, more so than most forms of entertainment in our society. You might want to jump in yourself.
 
Dear Catholic Mom,
Regarding your marriage, I have a friend who has a similar problem because her husband is a hunting and fishing nut. He’s a good guy and works hard, but loves these hobbies. She’s not interested, so she stays home.

In my opinion, women today sometimes expect men to cow tow to their interests too much. They want a husband to be like their best girlfriend and enjoy going shopping with them. So, in my opinion, develop some great hobbies of your own, and thank God that your dear husband isn’t into anything worse than D&D. 🙂
 
yeah, problem is he is. He has developed a habit of looking at bad pic on line. He already play an RPG on line for 3 hours a day in the morning just about every morning. He would rather play this than teach his boy how to throw a ball. He is the father of 4 children. He needs to grow up and be a dad not go off playing some game with a bunch of boys. He needs to be with his own boys. Oh, and I do have my own intests and I am not looking for him to be a girlfriend. I have those, I want him to be a MAN not a 5th child.
 
As far as I know the church hasn’t specifically addressed D&D but they have stated some thing about RPGs in general. I can’t remember the quote (I’m sure someone here will find the exact info you’re looking for), but basically, the church regards RPGs like all other forms of media and entertainment. Some of it is harmful because it encourages bad things (like violent horror movies, or pornography) and some of it is not harmful because it doesn’t promote these negative things.

There are RPGs out there that I’m sure the church ojbects to because they promote anti-Christian values, but the church doesn’t object to RPGs themselves as a form of entertainment or hobby.

It’s like anything else.

If you watch violent movies, you’re probably hurting yourself. But not all movies are evil.

If you read pornographic magazines, you are hurting yourself. But not all magazines are tools of the devil.

If you let an RPG become an obsession, it will. And if you play an RPG with potentially harmful elements in it, you will probably be effected by that. But RPGs are not all bad by nature, nor is D&D specifically, since the vast majority of D&D games are based on (practically plagiarising really) Tolkien who was himself a devout Catholic.
 
Oh, sorry Catholic Mom. Yes, it sounds like he has a problem. I tell you, the internet is very addicting. In fact, I spend too much time on it myself. Yes, the internet can be worse than heroin, I tell you. TV is also a big time waster. Some guys are addicted to sports shows. My husband is dead, and I don’t think I want to risk another one. They are rather like having another kid in a lot of cases.
 
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catholic_mom:
yeah, problem is he is. He has developed a habit of looking at bad pic on line. He already play an RPG on line for 3 hours a day in the morning just about every morning. He would rather play this than teach his boy how to throw a ball. He is the father of 4 children. He needs to grow up and be a dad not go off playing some game with a bunch of boys. He needs to be with his own boys. Oh, and I do have my own intests and I am not looking for him to be a girlfriend. I have those, I want him to be a MAN not a 5th child.
You didn’t mention that in your first post, maybe you should have.

If he’s playing MMORPGs and it’s distracting him from his real life, then that could be a very real problem and he needs to address it. I’ve played those myself, and I know just how addictive they can be (thankfully, I never really lost control, but I’ve seen people get sucked into those worlds pretty badly). Those games are much more dangerous than the pen & paper ones because they are designed to encourage long-term play with a series of increasingly “cool” rewards. It’s like Pavlovian conditioning. They can actually cause dissociative disorders in people who normally would never suffer from them.

I’m not saying that’s what’s happening to your husband, but those games really are a whole different kind of animal than the D&Ds of the world. They’re far less social than pen & paper RPGs which at least require face-to-face human interaction to play (or I should say, the social interaction is impoverished by the limitations of the medium). And the fact that they are intentionally designed to entrap players into paying monthly fees doesn’t usually help. They are built for the specific purpose of being addictive so players should always be aware of just how invested they are in the game and they should consciously set limits for themselves to avoid letting it take over their lives. Players who don’t take this advice to heart, end up in trouble eventually, usually pretty minor relationship problems that can be repaired and just wind up serving as a wake up call. But sometimes people aren’t that lucky and they end up suffering far worse consequences.

Oh and about the “boys” thing. Most MMO players are in their 20s and 30s. Most video game players are in their 30s. The belief that these kinds of games are “just for kids” is one of the primary reasons why so many kids end up playing harmful games. Parents don’t put the same effort into screening these things as they do movies or other forms of entertainment, or they just ban it outright causing the child to go find it somewhere else, outside of the parent’s reach and beyond their discretion.

It’s important not to think of this as a maturity problem because that’s not really what it is. Dissociation is caused by an individual’s belief that their needs are not being met in the real world and therefore they have to find a way to meet those needs in a fantasy. Generally, this effect adults more than kids.
 
Well then they should actively change/fix their real world rather than pretend and put energy in a fantasy. The fanasy hurts the family.
 
D&D really isn’t the problem for you, it your husband’s behavior. If it wasn’t D&D it would be something else. My husband played D&D growing up and he plays playstation RPGs now (he’s 34). He played a game called Magic:The Gathering (cards) in the Navy, and he taught it to me because after he got out of the military he had no one else to play it with. So we would play it pretty regularly. Now he’s taught it to our daughter. She 10 but she was probably about 8 when she learned.

My husband enjoys games but he also spends a large portion of his time with me and our daughter. He plays video games at night to unwind after both me and our daughter are in bed.

Anything that causes you to neglect your family can be a problem. A person can sit all day in church and pray instead of spending time with his/her family and then it it’s a problem. They’re certainly nothing wrong with prayer but when it over takes your life to the detriment of your family then you have a problem.

Is it possible he suffers from depression? People that get heavily involved in fantasy are usually trying to avoid what’s going on in reality. It sound like you need a good priest or Catholic counselor for some direction.
 
Both of my buddies have introduced their kids at a young age to D&D. I think if the parent has a healthy attitude towards it, it may be ok. For example, when I play with my group, no one can play an evil character. We can play neutral characters that do bad things, but not outright evil.

You husbands 3-hours before work may or may not be a problem. If he’s doing it when everyone is sleeping and he’s still able to fulfill all his roles effectively (work, husband, father, etc) then it’s ok. But it sounds like he hasn’t been.

Good luck
 
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catholic_mom:
yeah, problem is he is. He has developed a habit of looking at bad pic on line. He already play an RPG on line for 3 hours a day in the morning just about every morning. He would rather play this than teach his boy how to throw a ball. He is the father of 4 children. He needs to grow up and be a dad not go off playing some game with a bunch of boys. He needs to be with his own boys. Oh, and I do have my own intests and I am not looking for him to be a girlfriend. I have those, I want him to be a MAN not a 5th child.
I’m 35 and I play D&D. I got my wife into it about 5 years ago. We have met some very good friends through the game that we associate with outside of the hobby.

I know some parents who play in games with their kids. It can be a great activity to share. I would say that due to the complexity of the game that 7 and 6 is a probably a little young to start them on it. The parents I know who play with their kids introduced them to D&D at about 10 to 12. Again, only because the game is so complex.

I played an online game for a while a few years back. Those things sucked up the hours without me realizign it. I stopped playing because it was taking so much time I was neglecting other responsibilities. It is also a very isolating activity. Even though there are other people online, it is not the same as personal interaction.

I would heartily recommend you try to get your husband offline and into a tabletop roleplaying game. If he can find a group that plays once or twice a month, he should get his gaming fix satisfied while having plenty of time left for his family. Keep in mind a typical game session lasts about 4 to 6 hours so you won’t see much of him that night (when games are typically played).

My group generally plays every other Friday. That gives the family guys a night out and leaves the whole weekend available for the wife and kids.
 
As with most things, “anything in moderation…”.

Obvious exceptions not withstanding, it comes down to an issue of neglect.

Why is are themse deemed “fantasy” any worse than silly unrealistic romance movies,adventure, comdey’s that could never occur, or whatever?

I agree, it is a hobby, worth no more or less than a sport, reading, hiking, camping, working out, or any other hobby.

The stigma of “gaming is for kids” is quickly being unspun as someoneo pointed out.

I wish I had a few hours each day to play, and I am single, so my concern is at 4 hours a day, what ISN’T he doing that perhaps he should be?
 
I’m delighted to see so many positive comments about Role Playing Games. I have the urge to contribute to the conversation however, I feel everyone here has already said it all.

Catholic Mom, we’ll keep your family in our prayers.

Nick
 
I’m always comforted by this quote from a TSR (the creators of D&D) executive:
"It’s just Cowboys and Indians with written down rules.
 
Kinda grew up with AD&D. But I never played the board game, sadly, just the computer RPG. My first ever was Eye of the Beholder II, and my favourite RPG is Baldur’s Gate II. BTW, one of the most horrible games to come out is also based on AD&D, which is Pool of Radiance. Thankfully I didn’t install it, but those who did have since regretted it.
 
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catholic_mom:
I am hoping to find some information here about D&D. My husband used to play before we even met. Now he wants to get back into playing it. In addition he wants our kids (ages 7 and 6) to play too. I think that D&D is no good. He sees it as harmless. Where does the church stand? Please help us. This subject is effecting our mariage. 😦
As far as the church stand…I think it is ok, but one must always be aware of the Pitfalls. I have not played it, but I taught 6th grade CCD for awhile in the 90’s. It was all the rage with the kids.

Unfortunately, one yougster was very into it. The results were rather horrifying. He was mentaly unstable, as time went on. I think his background had much to do with it. Parents divorced. On the weekends he spent with his father, they played D & D. On Sunday, after his visit, he was wired and frankly appeared to be a bit possessed. Scary in fact. He would role play in class, and be almost trance like. He evetually became suicidal. 😦

Jimmy Akin
In this regard, the game merely having fantasy content would not be enough. If the content of The Lord of the Rings were the same, it would make no difference whether people experience it by reading it, watching it on screen, or playing it as a game. Merely the fantasy content of the work is not enough to make it illicit.
On the other hand, one might mount an argument that the content of a particular game is sufficiently morally problematic that it should not be indulged in. This argument may succeed in many particular cases. The way many D&D worlds are run, the characters regularly engage in immoral behavior in a way that has a deleterious moral effect on their players.
 
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rayne89:
D&D really isn’t the problem for you, it your husband’s behavior. If it wasn’t D&D it would be something else. My husband played D&D growing up and he plays playstation RPGs now (he’s 34). He played a game called Magic:The Gathering (cards) in the Navy, and he taught it to me because after he got out of the military he had no one else to play it with. So we would play it pretty regularly. Now he’s taught it to our daughter. She 10 but she was probably about 8 when she learned.

My husband enjoys games but he also spends a large portion of his time with me and our daughter. He plays video games at night to unwind after both me and our daughter are in bed.

Anything that causes you to neglect your family can be a problem. A person can sit all day in church and pray instead of spending time with his/her family and then it it’s a problem. They’re certainly nothing wrong with prayer but when it over takes your life to the detriment of your family then you have a problem.

Is it possible he suffers from depression? People that get heavily involved in fantasy are usually trying to avoid what’s going on in reality. It sound like you need a good priest or Catholic counselor for some direction.
I totally agree here.

We are a huge RPG family. PC, console gaming, card and board games…

My brothers are actually a lot more ‘into’ Magic the Gathering… They have thousands of cards and a killer tournament deck (or two). I hate to think how much they may have spent on all their cards 🙂

But as they dont’ have families themselves yet, more power to them… just so they can let it go and get ‘real’ when they do have families…

Which, seems to be the case with the OP… Her husband is just having a hard time getting ‘real’.

My prayers are with you and your family catholic mom. You’ve gotten a lot of great advice here.
 
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