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CeaselessMedik
Guest
it’s an optional supplement to the core game and it really is vile and dark, unabnashedly adding evil content. As I said, it’s optional, so is it okay to play D&D without it?
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Rhubarb
Guest
Morality in Dungeons and Dragons is an objective system used as a narrative device and for the mechanics of the game. Good is definable, and there are objective good acts. Likewise for evil. Having this interplay I think is important for the tone of many games - a D&D adventure written at the most basic level is a good vs. evil tale. Of course more advanced narratives can be written and played with grey moralities. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that evil in D&D isn’t real evil. It’s fake make-believe evil. There’s be no conflict in the game without evil - Frodo needs his Sauron to foil.
Vile Darkness is an awesome supplement for campaigns that want to explore evil in the D&D world or want to include vile and/or dark villains and elements for heroes to struggle against. If the content makes someone uncomfortable then by all means don’t use it. The great thing about role playing games is that the game is what you make of it, and only what you make of it. The evil content in Vile Darkness isn’t anymore evil than what you could find in the core books - it’s just got more description.
Vile Darkness is an awesome supplement for campaigns that want to explore evil in the D&D world or want to include vile and/or dark villains and elements for heroes to struggle against. If the content makes someone uncomfortable then by all means don’t use it. The great thing about role playing games is that the game is what you make of it, and only what you make of it. The evil content in Vile Darkness isn’t anymore evil than what you could find in the core books - it’s just got more description.
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CradleJourney
Guest
And as someone who was introduced to D&D “back in the day” may I simply suggest this:
If you do not like the content being produced, simply do not purchase it.
My family, friends, and now children have happily played D&D for decades with minimal purchasing of actual product. Simply using the basic framework and creating our own character classes, monsters, NPC’s, and quest modules. Of course it helps that we have quite a few creative and mathematical minds that can extrapolate from the basic manual, but the result is quite fun, quite cheap, and I don’t provide financial support for any material I find objectionable.
The key is finding (or being) a DM that runs their dungeons in ways acceptable to the group. If you don’t want demons, then have a DM that keeps to non-spiritual antagonists. I run one group that really doesn’t particularly like fighting - so I keep the battles to a bare minimum and dial up the level of mysteries, puzzles, and physical challenges (coming up with ways to cross a flooded gorge using minimal tools and resources, coded messages, shifting labyrinths, etc.). That group mainly earns their XP’s by solving problems and finding/earning treasure by helping other NPC’s with their missions rather fighting. There are a few giant rats, wolves, and the occasional goblin pack to keep things interesting but no dark forces, curses, or magic beyond the traditional spells are involved.
I have no thoughts about the particular supplement you’re talking about. It may be fine, I leave that judgement up to the individual. I’m just saying you can easily play this game without getting into anything you find objectionable.
If you do not like the content being produced, simply do not purchase it.
My family, friends, and now children have happily played D&D for decades with minimal purchasing of actual product. Simply using the basic framework and creating our own character classes, monsters, NPC’s, and quest modules. Of course it helps that we have quite a few creative and mathematical minds that can extrapolate from the basic manual, but the result is quite fun, quite cheap, and I don’t provide financial support for any material I find objectionable.
The key is finding (or being) a DM that runs their dungeons in ways acceptable to the group. If you don’t want demons, then have a DM that keeps to non-spiritual antagonists. I run one group that really doesn’t particularly like fighting - so I keep the battles to a bare minimum and dial up the level of mysteries, puzzles, and physical challenges (coming up with ways to cross a flooded gorge using minimal tools and resources, coded messages, shifting labyrinths, etc.). That group mainly earns their XP’s by solving problems and finding/earning treasure by helping other NPC’s with their missions rather fighting. There are a few giant rats, wolves, and the occasional goblin pack to keep things interesting but no dark forces, curses, or magic beyond the traditional spells are involved.
I have no thoughts about the particular supplement you’re talking about. It may be fine, I leave that judgement up to the individual. I’m just saying you can easily play this game without getting into anything you find objectionable.
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TarkanAttila
Guest
Are you a DM? If so, you control the game. If you are a participant, subject to a DM who uses this book… either find a different DM, borrow one of their copies, read up to see what you will be up against (so you can prepare yourself), or kindly ask the DM not to use it.
Just my thoughts, not that I’m all that experienced.
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Nixbits
Guest
I just want to add my opinion to the excellent responses from Rhubarb, CradleJourney and TarkanAttila.
Speaking as someone who’s played D&D since about 1981, if some content doesn’t make the game more enjoyable for the whole group, don’t use it. Whether it’s in a supplement, module or the rulebooks, it’s all optional. They’re just guidelines on ways to structure the game. For the first few years of playing my friends and I didn’t bother with measuring encumbrance. Later we did use it to add more ‘realism’.
With any part of the game, include it, exclude it, modify it, create your own version. The only limitation should be that your group agrees on how to apply ‘rules’ and that you make the game as fun as possible for all concerned. If introducing vile villains and excruciating evil into your games is not the direction that you want to go, tell the group.
We had similar discussions about high fantasy (characterised by the conflict between Good and Evil) versus low fantasy (characterised by more mundane concerns like how to get enough gold pieces to pay my debts at the Green dragon Tavern). Having saved the kingdom several times, we switched to more low fantasy story-lines because collectively we preferred it.
Speaking as someone who’s played D&D since about 1981, if some content doesn’t make the game more enjoyable for the whole group, don’t use it. Whether it’s in a supplement, module or the rulebooks, it’s all optional. They’re just guidelines on ways to structure the game. For the first few years of playing my friends and I didn’t bother with measuring encumbrance. Later we did use it to add more ‘realism’.
With any part of the game, include it, exclude it, modify it, create your own version. The only limitation should be that your group agrees on how to apply ‘rules’ and that you make the game as fun as possible for all concerned. If introducing vile villains and excruciating evil into your games is not the direction that you want to go, tell the group.
We had similar discussions about high fantasy (characterised by the conflict between Good and Evil) versus low fantasy (characterised by more mundane concerns like how to get enough gold pieces to pay my debts at the Green dragon Tavern). Having saved the kingdom several times, we switched to more low fantasy story-lines because collectively we preferred it.
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CeaselessMedik
Guest
So is it okay to buy opther supplement books? And I worry that the book of vile darkness’s existence might reflect immorality of the company/people who wrote it. What about that?
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Rhubarb
Guest
The game is make-believe. It’s for dramatic purposes, not an endorsement or enjoineder to do evil. They also printed the Book of Exalted Deeds to explore good in the context of the game too, remember.
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