Dying Liberal Churches

[RevDrNorth]

Here is just one example. The Diocese of Quebec is on the verge of extinction according to its Bishop. It also mentions the liberal Lutheran church in the area as well suffering a similar condition. Virtureonline has detailed diocese after diocese in the Episcopal Church that is in financial difficulty and losing members. On historic Church is being taken over by a historical society as the aging population can no longer support it and has shrunken.
virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=11653

This scenario is repeated in many mainline liberal denomination where all that is being left in the half empty buildings are the elderly.

The growing and dynamic groups seem to be those that are conservative and following an evangelical model. Evangelical Anglicans are growing. In fact it is those groups who are leaving the TEC and creating huge holes. Some have even abandoned their buildings to maintain allegiance to their faith.

I recall an NPR article a few years ago about a Presbyterian Church that split in a city somewhere. The liberal group (PC USA) was small and older. The conservative group was larger and had young families, dynamic music and so on (PC in America as I recall).

I know of a large Roman Catholic Church that took some lessons from the evangelical model and is dynamic, has weekly bible studies, active youth groups, services where people raise their hands in praise, etc. On fire for Christ. People travel from all over to go to the service. Even has a Catholic school with a waiting list.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Here is just one example. The Diocese of Quebec is on the verge of extinction according to its Bishop. It also mentions the liberal Lutheran church in the area as well suffering a similar condition. Virtureonline has detailed diocese after diocese in the Episcopal Church that is in financial difficulty and losing members. On historic Church is being taken over by a historical society as the aging population can no longer support it and has shrunken.
virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=11653

This scenario is repeated in many mainline liberal denomination where all that is being left in the half empty buildings are the elderly.

The growing and dynamic groups seem to be those that are conservative and following an evangelical model. Evangelical Anglicans are growing. In fact it is those groups who are leaving the TEC and creating huge holes. Some have even abandoned their buildings to maintain allegiance to their faith.

I recall an NPR article a few years ago about a Presbyterian Church that split in a city somewhere. The liberal group (PC USA) was small and older. The conservative group was larger and had young families, dynamic music and so on (PC in America as I recall).

I know of a large Roman Catholic Church that took some lessons from the evangelical model and is dynamic, has weekly bible studies, active youth groups, services where people raise their hands in praise, etc. On fire for Christ. People travel from all over to go to the service. Even has a Catholic school with a waiting list.

The evidence seems to be glaringly obvious, yet there are still liberals who insist that Christianity is “irrelevent” unless we conform to secular society I hate to see any church dead or dying, but part of me is kind of like “good riddance”, kwim? I know that’s wrong, but I can’t help it. It’s so frustrating to keep hearing the same liberal party line-that basically Christians must condone and embrace sin to survive, when the opposite is so blatantly true. It’s like “please ignore the man behind the curtain”

That Catholic church you describe sounds a lot like mine-minus the “raising hands in praise” worship style. We’re not charismatic, although different Masses (we have 6 every weekend and 2 daily) have different music, ranging from traditional to contemporary. But we are very on fire for Christ-we have 24 hour Adoration-as well as youth groups, Bible studies (I think there’s like 4 different ones going on right now), adult education, and a very long waiting list for our school (not to mention over 1000 kids in PSR). I believe it’s due to our orthodoxy and faithfulness to the teachings of the Church and the perpetual Adoration (most parishes report great things as a result of perpetual Adoration).

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[RevDrNorth]

That Catholic church you describe sounds a lot like mine-minus the “raising hands in praise” worship style. We’re not charismatic, although different Masses (we have 6 every weekend and 2 daily) have different music, ranging from traditional to contemporary. But we are very on fire for Christ-we have 24 hour Adoration-as well as youth groups, Bible studies (I think there’s like 4 different ones going on right now), adult education, and a very long waiting list for our school (not to mention over 1000 kids in PSR). I believe it’s due to our orthodoxy and faithfulness to the teachings of the Church and the perpetual Adoration (most parishes report great things as a result of perpetual Adoration).

In Christ,

Ellen

How cool! That is a great report all around plus the idea of producing Catholics armed with the word of God

 

[Hiskid1973]

I chalk it up to end time apostasy…We are growing from people leaving dying churches…

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Sometimes I think we err when we use the worrd, Liberal, to describe these (largely Mainline protestant) church bodies. The correct word to use is “Apostate.”
Even the protestant reformers themselves would be whirling in their graves if they
could see the abominations being adopted by these false religious bodies.
I belonged before my conversion to the RCC, to a congregation that was a member of the Presbyterian Church (USA), the “liberal” (sic) version of Presbyterianism.
My congregation was largely fine (however small), but the parent body was so sickening in it’s departures from scriptural moral and doctrinal standards that I couldn’t stomach the idea of being a member of the PCUSA anymore. And just weeks ago the ELCA
adopted pro-Gay Marriage policies and I understand that they are going to start writing liturgies for use for in-church gay weddings. This is blasphemy of the highest order.
And all the mainline churches are pro-Abortion. It is high time that they were denounced as spiritual harlots and their godfearing members given the clarion call
to “Come out of her, my people,” come out of the Great Harlot of the End Times.
'(Revelation 17 inclusive).

 

[RevDrNorth]

Sometimes I think we err when we use the worrd, Liberal, to describe these (largely Mainline protestant) church bodies. The correct word to use is “Apostate.”
Even the protestant reformers themselves would be whirling in their graves if they
could see the abominations being adopted by these false religious bodies.
I belonged before my conversion to the RCC, to a congregation that was a member of the Presbyterian Church (USA), the “liberal” (sic) version of Presbyterianism.
My congregation was largely fine (however small), but the parent body was so sickening in it’s departures from scriptural moral and doctrinal standards that I couldn’t stomach the idea of being a member of the PCUSA anymore. And just weeks ago the ELCA
adopted pro-Gay Marriage policies and I understand that they are going to start writing liturgies for use for in-church gay weddings. This is blasphemy of the highest order.
And all the mainline churches are pro-Abortion. It is high time that they were denounced as spiritual hartlots and their godfearing members given the clarion call
to “Come out of her, my people,” come out of the Great Harlot of the End Times.

Interesting point. The Reformers would indeed be shocked at the departure of biblical values and principles.

How did you end up coming to the RCC? What were deciding factors for you?

 

[Eutychus123]

I used to belong to the United Church of Christ (UCC), a so called Mainline Protestant church. I hit the door when they planned to adopt an “Open and Affirming” statement. Being good Congregationalists, they had to vote on everything. They voted on the statement. They didn’t have the courage to vote on the real question. The real question was whether homosexual behavior is sinful. They don’t think that it is and that they can overturn 2000 years of church teaching by a majoirty vote.

 

[crazzeto]

I know of a large -]Roman/-] Catholic -]Church/-] [parish] that took some lessons from the evangelical model and is dynamic, has weekly bible studies, active youth groups, services where people raise their hands in praise, etc. On fire for Christ. People travel from all over to go to the service. Even has a Catholic school with a waiting list.

(Corrected church name, sorry pet peeve). To some extend I think we can take some idea’s from the American Protestant model. Though personally I have no desire to see, or hear of any integration of Evengelical practices durring leturgical worship. Honestly if I knew what church & disosies that was I would contact the Bishop and question whether there were leturgical abuses going on.

The Mass is a time for worship of God, true worship of God. I think it’s possible, in fact inevetable that you will diminish true worship of God by taking too many liberties with the ancient liturgy. IMHO Sunday Mass should remain, always very traditional. That may sound “boring” to some, if that’s the case then I think it’s time to start questioning whether you’re going there to give glory to God, or if you’re going there to see what God has to offer you today.

My parish is also very active in many of the other ways you mention here though. Right now my fiance and I are invaled in a CSS Bible Study course, 20 weeks on Revelation (Apocalypse). We’re both active with our Young Adult Ministry, in the Summer we do have a VBS program, which I fully intend on volenteering for, currently I’m a Catechism Teacher, and there are still more oppertunities to be involved but at the end of the day, I need some time with my faince too

Our school has a waiting list, typically if families have more than one child and the parents try to get them all into the Catholic School only one child will make it in out of the bunch. We’re getting ready to break ground on a new school building to ease the problems we’re having serving the communities need in this regard.

And we’ve managed all of this, with a strict traditional leturgical service. At the end of the day, even if people don’t realize it at the outset, I think this is what most really want. The thing is, you have to keep them engaged, that’s the most important part. Where many other Parishes can fail, is in offering no adult, and in particular young adult formation oppertunities. At the parish I went to growing up, all there is for you as a young adult is Sunday Mass, period. That doesn’t cut it.

Now I wouldn’t object to more charismatic prayer services weekday evenings, for instance if that’s what someone wanted. In fact I think it’s a terrific idea, perhaps also charismatic lectures on the faith (Sermons if you will ). That might be an appropriate way to add some of those concepts for those people who really want it. But durring leturgical worship? Not so much.

Edit
On a personal note, anyone else find it sort of ironic that Evangelical services are the ones called “conservitive”? That one has always left me perplexed having grown up in the Orthodox (Catholic) world. Other than the political affiliation, they’re a little more like Theolgical radical liberals from an Orthodox perspective.

 

[Eutychus123]

(Corrected church name, sorry pet peeve). To some extend I think we can take some idea’s from the American Protestant model. Though personally I have no desire to see, or hear of any integration of Evengelical practices durring leturgical worship. Honestly if I knew what church & disosies that was I would contact the Bishop and question whether there were leturgical abuses going on.

The Mass is a time for worship of God, true worship of God. I think it’s possible, in fact inevetable that you will diminish true worship of God by taking too many liberties with the ancient liturgy. IMHO Sunday Mass should remain, always very traditional. That may sound “boring” to some, if that’s the case then I think it’s time to start questioning whether you’re going there to give glory to God, or if you’re going there to see what God has to offer you today.

My parish is also very active in many of the other ways you mention here though. Right now my fiance and I are invaled in a CSS Bible Study course, 20 weeks on Revelation (Apocalypse). We’re both active with our Young Adult Ministry, in the Summer we do have a VBS program, which I fully intend on volenteering for, currently I’m a Catechism Teacher, and there are still more oppertunities to be involved but at the end of the day, I need some time with my faince too

Our school has a waiting list, typically if families have more than one child and the parents try to get them all into the Catholic School only one child will make it in out of the bunch. We’re getting ready to break ground on a new school building to ease the problems we’re having serving the communities need in this regard.

And we’ve managed all of this, with a strict traditional leturgical service. At the end of the day, even if people don’t realize it at the outset, I think this is what most really want. The thing is, you have to keep them engaged, that’s the most important part. Where many other Parishes can fail, is in offering no adult, and in particular young adult formation oppertunities. At the parish I went to growing up, all there is for you as a young adult is Sunday Mass, period. That doesn’t cut it.

Now I wouldn’t object to more charismatic prayer services weekday evenings, for instance if that’s what someone wanted. In fact I think it’s a terrific idea, perhaps also charismatic lectures on the faith (Sermons if you will ). That might be an appropriate way to add some of those concepts for those people who really want it. But durring leturgical worship? Not so much.

Edit
On a personal note, anyone else find it sort of ironic that Evangelical services are the ones called “conservitive”? That one has always left me perplexed having grown up in the Orthodox (Catholic) world. Other than the political affiliation, they’re a little more like Theolgical radical liberals from an Orthodox perspective.

Yes, I agree with you about liberal vs. conservative. I would be happier to leave those terms in the political arena, where they belong.

 

[rtconstant]

Personally I think that sometime people confuse compassion with political correctness. Also in the West we, at a national level espouse freedom and pluralistic ideals, and those ideals often creep into religious beliefs because they’re so ingrained in us culturally. The difference is that laws are primarily about keeping the peace for the sake of safety, and trade and religion is about Truth. Truth is eternal and doesn’t change. When a religion starts to adjust its beliefs on the Truth, in order to appease current political tides, it ceases to be relevant.

People turn to God, not for affirmations that everything is “OK”, but to be given guidelines for how to become OK. The Church sets a beacon, a standard by which individuals must align themselves. The Church is there to constantly challenge the motivations of nations and individuals. When it fails to do this then it ultimately has failed in its purpose. I think that people instinctually realize that we can’t always have it our way.