Earliest Christians on Purgatory

[steve_b]

“The souls of the godly remain in a better place, while those of the unjust and wicked are in a worst place, waiting for the time of judgement.” (Justin Martyr- 160 E), 1.197

“When the soul, by the power of death, is released from it bonds to the flesh, it is by the very release cleansed and purified…And then if finds itself enjoying its freedom from matter. And by virtue of its liberty, it recovers its divinity. It is just as one who awakes out of sleep passes from dreams to realities. Then the soul declares what it sees. Then it either exults or it fears as soon as it sees the very angel’s face- depending on what lodging it discovers has been prepared for it” (Tertullian- c. 210, W - 3.230).

“There is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, unless it believes while it is still in the flesh. For it is an established truth that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges” (Tertullian c. 210, W- 3.551)

Tertullian’s is considered an ECF, but not a saint because he fell into heresy. His writings fall into 3 periods.

• his Catholic period 197 - 206
• his semi Montinist period 206 - 212 His writings therefore, from this period on, can’t be depended on. He’s a montanist but hasn’t made his break complete
• His Montinist period 213 - 223 he’s formally made the break, he’s a Montinist (which is a heresy)

EY:

“When you have once departed yonder, there is no longer any place for repentance. And there is no possibility of making satisfaction. Here life is either lost or saved. Here eternal safety is provided for by the worship of God and the fruits of faith. Do not let anyone be restrained from coming to obtain salvation, either by his sins or by his years. To him who still remains in this world, no repentance is too late” (Cyprian 5.465).

This doesn’t discount purgatory since purgatory isn’t what we do for ourselves, but what is done to us by God.
EY:

“In hades there is no repentance…so while the way of mercy is open, brethren, let us entreat God with full atonements” Treatise against novatian 2.662, 663

Nothing against purgatory here
EY:

“A second life is not granted to us. It is not as though if we seek wisdom in this life, we will be wise in the next one. Each result must be brought about in this life. It should be quickly found in order that it may be quickly embraced” Lactantius 7.85

Still not against purgatory.
EY:

“Let no one imagine that souls are immediately judged after death. For all are detained in one and a common place of confinement- until the arrival of the time in which the great judge will make an investigation of their deserts. Those whose piety will have been approved will receive the reward of immortality. However, those whose sins and crimes will have been brought to light - these will not rise again. Rather, they will be hidden in the same darkness with the wicked, being destined to certain punishment.” Lactantius 7.217

did you read what led up to that statement?

Ch 21 newadvent.org/fathers/07017.htm
The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment: which the poets transferred to the vulture of Tityus. Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when He shall have judged the righteous, He will also try them with fire. Then they whose sins shall exceed either in weight or in number, shall be scorched by the fire and burnt: but they whom full justice and maturity of virtue has imbued will not perceive that fire; for they have something of God in themselves which repels and rejects the violence of the flame. So great is the force of innocence, that the flame shrinks from it without doing harm; which has received from God this power, that it burns the wicked, and is under the command of the righteous. Nor, however, let any one imagine that souls are immediately judged after death. For all are detained in one and a common place of confinement, until the arrival of the time in which the great Judge shall make an investigation of their deserts. Then they whose piety shall have been approved of will receive the reward of immortality; but they whose sins and crimes shall have been brought to light will not rise again, but will be hidden in the same darkness with the wicked, being destined to certain punishment.

As an aside, The Church would disagree with the position that souls aren’t immediately judged after death.

a short bio of Lactantius newadvent.org/cathen/08736a.htm

 

[Todd_Easton]

“There is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, unless it believes while it is still in the flesh. For it is an established truth that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges” (Tertullian c. 210, W- 3.551)

“When you have once departed yonder, there is no longer any place for repentance. And there is no possibility of making satisfaction. Here life is either lost or saved. Here eternal safety is provided for by the worship of God and the fruits of faith. Do not let anyone be restrained from coming to obtain salvation, either by his sins or by his years. To him who still remains in this world, no repentance is too late” (Cyprian 5.465).

“In hades there is no repentance…so while the way of mercy is open, brethren, let us entreat God with full atonements” Treatise against novatian 2.662, 663

“A second life is not granted to us. It is not as though if we seek wisdom in this life, we will be wise in the next one. Each result must be brought about in this life. It should be quickly found in order that it may be quickly embraced” Lactantius 7.85

None of these quotes mention Purgatory or deny it. At death, our will is eternally fixed, for God or against God, and our eternal destiny made manifest, heaven or hell. Purgatory is not a chance to repent after death; it is how heaven-bound souls not perfectly sanctified in life are made perfect and fit to enter heaven proper.

 

[Kennyj]

Purgatory is a rather recent phenomenon, it is not based in any explicit biblical scripture but instead in tradition. But not founded with early Catholic teaching. I am not saying purgatory does not exist, so please dont go there with me. Just pointing out facts.

So yes I struggle with it but believe in purgatory I guess for now.

 

[Dubay]

The interpretation of Scripture (called hermeneutics) is built on three preliminary laws. The first is this: Scripture interprets Scripture, called “the rule of analogy.” The second law of hermeneutics is this: The plain meaning of Scripture is usually the true meaning. The third rule is this: Simple passages of Scripture help explain complex passages of Scripture-the simple informs the complicated. Roman Catholic hermeneutics concerning supposed proof texts for purgatory violate all of these laws of hermeneutics. There is no clear, plain, and simple text about purgatory, as there is about both heaven and hell. The Apocrypha cannot be placed equal to inspired Scripture. The Bible plainly speaks about life, death, and judgment: “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Heb. 9:27). We live, we die, we are judged, we go to heaven or hell; and when Christ comes a second time the final judgment, final hell and final heaven arrive. There is no mention of postmortem purgation at all.

Purgatory is an extrabiblical idea, imported into the church in the Middle Ages-a product of tradition but not Scripture. And the Catholic efforts at grasping for hermeneutical straws to support this false belief-”fire,” “the age to come,” “souls in prison”-betray a lack of clear, precise, and biblical evidence for that place called purgatory.

 

[Steve80]

“After the end of the world no other virtue will survive except Charity, that is, the Union of all the creatures who lived in justice, with the Creator. There will not be several Heavens: one for Israel, one for Christians, one for Catholics, one for Gentiles, one for heathens. There will be one Heaven only.”

“Listen. You may say: ‘Then, what justice is there in belonging to the holy religion, if at the end of the world we shall be treated exactly as the Gentiles?’. I reply to you: the same justice which there is—and is true justice—for those who, although they belong to the holy religion, will not be beatified, because they did not lead a holy life. A virtuous heathen, only because he lived according to choice virtue, convinced that his religion was good, will have Heaven at the end. When? At the end of the world, when of the four abodes of the dead, two only will remain: that is, Paradise and Hell. Because Justice, at that time, will only be able to keep and give the two eternal kingdoms to those, who from the tree of free will, chose good fruits or wanted wicked ones. But what a long expectation before a virtuous heathen achieves that reward!.. Do you not think so? And that expectation, particularly from the moment when Redemption will have taken place with all its consequent wonders and the Gospel will have been preached all over the world, will be purgation of the souls which lived with justice in other religions, but were not able to enter the true Faith, after they became acquainted with its existence and the proof of its reality. Their abode will be Limbo for centuries and centuries, until the end of the world. The believers in the true God, who were not heroically holy, will have a long Purgatory, which may last until the end of the world for some of them. But after expiating and waiting, the good, irrespective of their provenance, will all sit at the right had of God; the wicked, whichever their provenance may be, at the left hand and then in the dreadful Hell, while the Saviour will enter the eternal Kingdom with all the good souls.” - The Poem of the Man-God, Vol. 4, p. 167

Say what you will about the Poem, the fact remains that this is a spot-on explanation of Limbo/Purgatory and why such a place (or thing) exists. Nothing unclean can be in the presence of God in Heaven, therefor purgation is necessary for the perfection of the soul. The reward is still the same, Heaven, but purification must take place prior to entering.

By saying there is no purification (Limbo/Purgatory) would be to say a heathen who lived a just and charitable life should be condemned to Hell. God’s Mercy for both heathens and those of the faith who were not “heroic” in their lives, is evident in this explanation. I would recommend approaching the idea spiritually. We tend to approach things, even scripture, limiting ourselves to human interpretation only.

 

[suissemissed]

To the OP,

I agree with the other posters that the quotes you provided do not refute purgatory. And purgatory is not a “second chance” (a common Protestant misconception), as only people who were saved on earth go there.

The biblical argument is mainly in two places, 1 Corinthians and Maccabees. In 1 Corinthians (3:11-15) St. Paul says this

“For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.” (NIV)

Basically, anyone who builds on Jesus (the foundation) is saved, anyone who does not is lost. Now, among those who build on the foundation, they either build good things (holiness, characterized by the valuable items in green) or they build bad things (venial sins, characterized by the items in red). Most of build some of both. Now, when our judgment comes, fire will test our work. The valuable stuff will not burn, so if we built holiness on our foundation of Christ, we receive a reward (the ability to love God more deeply and be closer with Him). However, for any venial sins that we built, they are burned away by the fire (ouch!) and we suffer loss. This is what Catholics call purgatory, our sins our “purged” away. Some people build nothing good on their foundation of Christ - they must suffer a lot of pain and loss, but are saved nonetheless because they had still repented of all serious sin, had faith, and died in Christ’s friendship (though they were only meager friends at that). We must always try to built holiness in our lives - not to be saved, as we can’t earn salvation - but to deepen our relationship with God.

The Maccabees argument is much less detailed. Basically, a bunch of soldiers had illegally taken some precious medallions. Now, because their sin was not grave, they still “died in godliness” as the sacred writer states. However, there was still the venial sin on their souls that needed cleansed. Hence, in 2 Maccabees 12:46, the writer says: “It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.” (DRA) Purgatory is the process (it need not be a place) whereby godly people are “loosed” from their sins.

Hope all this helps

 

[snarflemike]

So are protestants lost and damned?

Some are, some almost certainly are not. But protestants do believe in purgatory even though, strangely, they say they don’t.