Earth a "Circle"?

[Zulu_King]

How does the Church interpret this?
Isaiah 40:21:

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Job 26:10:

He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

The Earth is flat or spherical? If I remember correctly, circle through greek and hebrew translation is synonimous with sphere…

 

[Todd_Easton]

From the commentaries I’ve seem, the circle of the earth has less to do with the earth and more to do with what is above the earth.

Concerning Isaiah 40:22, in A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, edited by Bernard Orchard, et al., published by Thomas Nelson & Sons, 1953, on page 562, it says:
The globe [circle] of the earth is the firmament.

For a Protestant view concerning the same verse, in The New Oxford Annotated Bible With The Apocrypha, Revised Standard Verson, published by the Oxford University Press, 1977, on page 871, it says:
Circle, tent, the vault of heaven (Proverbs 8.27; Job 22.14).

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Zulu:

circle through greek and hebrew translation is synonimous with sphere…

That is not true in either Hebrew nor Greek.

The concept that is being descrbed is the filiment, dome over the land, earth. It is saying that God is in the heavens. The authors of scripture were using language of appearance – they did not use scientific terms. Some people quote that text to prove that the bible knows that the earth is round.

Here is a picture of Hebrew Cosmology at that time:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

earlyjewishwritings.com/images/genesisearth.jpg

 

[Zulu_King]

Thank you for your replies…

 

[mich2]

Daniel Marsh:

That is not true in either Hebrew nor Greek.

The concept that is being descrbed is the filiment, dome over the land, earth. It is saying that God is in the heavens. The authors of scripture were using language of appearance – they did not use scientific terms. Some people quote that text to prove that the bible knows that the earth is round.

Here is a picture of Hebrew Cosmology at that time:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/images/genesisearth.jpg

earlyjewishwritings.com/images/genesisearth.jpg

Or maybe such a cosmology is to identify a diffrent dimension, or world, existing among us. Sheol and Heaven are said to be spiritual places, not physical. Some cosmological maps, found within other religions, ressemble the Hebrew map, but identify the spirit world with the symbol of an animal. Some use elephants, which, in my view point, seem to be the closes resemblance of the pillars(they look like elephant legs of some sort :ehh: )
The snake usually is used as a symbol for the waters of the heaven above and under the earth. Some use twelve pillars, to identify the pillars,which would be reasonable, in my opinion, since the world is a circle, and therefore, the view of the pillars on the Hebrew map, being six in numbers, must be half of the total number.
Now, if this is so, let me postulate, for a moment, that such a cosmology was given us by someone who has observed such a world. Adam, Eve or Enoch could have been possible culprit Or it could have been one of the “sons of God” who were said to have children with the daughters of men. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, we have the story of kings, who were said to have come from another world;:“He (Gilgamesh) saw the Secret, discovered the Hidden,he brought information of (the time) before the Flood.” Gilgamesh is two thirds god and one third man. According to the list of the Sumerian kings,Adapa was the son of the god Enki (Ea). His name means “man” in Akkadian; Ea warned him not to
partake of food or drink while he was in heaven.So we have Adapa (meaning man) who is said to be the first king, There is also one called Enmendurana who, appenrently was taken to heaven by the gods Shamash and Adad, in order to learn its secrets. The
book of Enoch is sometimes refered to as “the secrets of Enoch”.Then we have Ziusudra, identified as the hero during the deluge.I personally can’t see how those similarities be left unnoticed.
Now if this is so, then, it rests that the Hebrew cosmological map must be correct.So, we see a flat earth corvered by a heavenly dome…not a sphere, which, to me is a bit puzzling If the sun, the moon and the stars are suppose to revolve around the earth,then, there must be a time of day when the moon and stars are to be located underneath the earth,out of sight from the inhabitants, while the sun is located above the sky for everyone to see. What makes the situation even more interesting, is that, according to the Hebrew cosmology, Sheol “never” sees the sun. The question remains, "how does the sun displaces itself from sunset to sunrise? The Hebrew cosmology is silent to this. Also, according to the Hebrew cosmological map, it is clear that it can be daylight for some people, and nightime for some others at the same time.How could they have known of such a phenomenon?
So, my point is this; if some out of space martian would take hold of “our” earthly map, they also could conclude that we believe the earth is flat. However, after looking closely, they could make the connection after seeing the names of the oceans on each side as being the same to mean the map is a two dimentional image of a three dimentional world.
I propose the Hebrew map is a two dimentional image of a "multi-dimentional world. If we make the earth to be a sphere, then,according to the map, daytime would indeed be on one side of the earth, and nightime on the opposite side. Also, Sheol would be situated in the “belly of the earth”, not simply underneath, which is the proper place.If the flat earth represents a three dimentional sphere, then the dome must represent something of another dimention,a spacetime curvature greater than what we can observe, if you wish; a world unseen by us humans.

Andre

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

mich2:

Or maybe such a cosmology is to identify a diffrent dimension, or world, existing among us. Sheol and Heaven are said to be spiritual places, not physical. Some cosmological maps, found within other religions, ressemble the Hebrew map, but identify the spirit world with the symbol of an animal. Some use elephants, which, in my view point, seem to be the closes resemblance of the pillars(they look like elephant legs of some sort :ehh: )
The snake usually is used as a symbol for the waters of the heaven above and under the earth. Some use twelve pillars, to identify the pillars,which would be reasonable, in my opinion, since the world is a circle, and therefore, the view of the pillars on the Hebrew map, being six in numbers, must be half of the total number.
Now, if this is so, let me postulate, for a moment, that such a cosmology was given us by someone who has observed such a world. Adam, Eve or Enoch could have been possible culprit Or it could have been one of the “sons of God” who were said to have children with the daughters of men. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, we have the story of kings, who were said to have come from another world;:“He (Gilgamesh) saw the Secret, discovered the Hidden,he brought information of (the time) before the Flood.” Gilgamesh is two thirds god and one third man. According to the list of the Sumerian kings, Adapa was the son of the god Enki (Ea). His name means “man” in Akkadian;

Actually, it doesn’t: amelu - later awelu, as in Awil-Marduk (the “Evil-Merodach” of 2 Kings 24) is the word for man; “Adapa” is a proper name, but not a common noun. And Adapa is called neither a king, nor a son of Enki (Ea).​

The “secret” Gilgamesh brings back is that of the Flood narrative - see Tablet 11.9.10, which echoes the lines quoted above.

The secrets taught to Enmeduranki by Shamash & Adad are divining teachniques. It is not at all clear that any heavenly journey is involved; none is hinted at in the text that relates the episode.

The kings before the Flood:

After the kingship descended from heaven, the kingship was in Eridug. In Eridug, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years. Alalĝar ruled for 36000 years. 2 kings; they ruled for 64800 years. Then Eridug fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira. In Bad-tibira, En-men-lu-ana ruled for 43200 years. En-men-gal-ana ruled for 28800 years. Dumuzid, the shepherd, ruled for 36000 years. 3 kings; they ruled for 108000 years. Then Bad-tibira fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Larag. In Larag, En-sipad-zid-ana ruled for 28800 years. 1 king; he ruled for 28800 years. Then Larag fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Zimbir. In Zimbir, En-men-dur-ana became king; he ruled for 21000 years. 1 king; he ruled for 21000 years. Then Zimbir fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Šuruppag. In Šuruppag, Ubara-Tutu became king; he ruled for 18600 years. 1 king; he ruled for 18600 years. In 5 cities 8 kings; they ruled for 241200 years. Then the flood swept over.

Adapa is not in the SKL, at all ##

The Adapa myth

For the Enmeduranki text (in
English): marquette.edu/maqom/enochic#fn18 ##

Ea warned him not to partake of food or drink while he was in heaven. So we have Adapa (meaning man) who is said to be the first king, There is also one called Enmendurana who, appenrently was taken to heaven by the gods Shamash and Adad, in order to learn its secrets. The
book of Enoch is sometimes refered to as “the secrets of Enoch”.Then we have Ziusudra, identified as the hero during the deluge.I personally can’t see how those similarities be left unnoticed. …

 

[mich2]

## Actually, it doesn’t: amelu - later awelu, as in Awil-Marduk (the “Evil-Merodach” of 2 Kings 24) is the word for man; “Adapa” is a proper name, but not a common noun. And Adapa is called neither a king, nor a son of Enki (Ea).

The “secret” Gilgamesh brings back is that of the Flood narrative - see Tablet 11.9.10, which echoes the lines quoted above.

The secrets taught to Enmeduranki by Shamash & Adad are divining teachniques. It is not at all clear that any heavenly journey is involved; none is hinted at in the text that relates the episode.

The kings before the Flood:

After the kingship descended from heaven, the kingship was in Eridug. In Eridug, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years. Alalĝar ruled for 36000 years. 2 kings; they ruled for 64800 years. Then Eridug fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira. In Bad-tibira, En-men-lu-ana ruled for 43200 years. En-men-gal-ana ruled for 28800 years. Dumuzid, the shepherd, ruled for 36000 years. 3 kings; they ruled for 108000 years. Then Bad-tibira fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Larag. In Larag, En-sipad-zid-ana ruled for 28800 years. 1 king; he ruled for 28800 years. Then Larag fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Zimbir. In Zimbir, En-men-dur-ana became king; he ruled for 21000 years. 1 king; he ruled for 21000 years. Then Zimbir fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Šuruppag. In Šuruppag, Ubara-Tutu became king; he ruled for 18600 years. 1 king; he ruled for 18600 years. In 5 cities 8 kings; they ruled for 241200 years. Then the flood swept over.

Adapa is not in the SKL, at all ##

The Adapa myth

For the Enmeduranki text (in
English): marquette.edu/maqom/enochic#fn18 ##

Thanks for the info,Gottle of Geer. Here are some other links.

compulink.co.uk/~craftings/enoch1.htm
faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/Adapa.htm

There seems to be some parallel between the Sumerian legends and the Hebrew legends. I believe that you are right concerning Adapa as being not one among the eight kings who are said to have existed before the flood, but one of the seven wise men instead. It seems that an interesting story could come out of both legends.

Andre