Eastern Catholic vs Roman

[m_p_w]

I am new on this Forum, and I joined it in order to better understand my religion.

So, I have this one question which has bother me for 1 year now.

Am I correct that both eastern and roman catholics have to follow “catechism of the catholic church” and the eastern catholic churches do recognize all the councils and creeds (First seven ecumenical councils and Further councils recognised as ecumenical in the Roman Catholic Church) (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenical_council)??)

for example:- Coptic Orthodox Church do not recognize some(most) of the councils and creeds, but Coptic Catholic Church do recognize all the councils and creeds.

Furthermore, the only difference which exists between the eastern and roman is traditions, cultures, languages.

Is this 100% correct?

 

[Casilda]

Different catechism.

So, no, not 100% correct. The Eastern churches of the Orthodox tradition have a saying, O taste and see that the Lord is good.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJWYQlPG6gM

Go visit an Eastern parish if you are so lucky as to have one near. Oops, saw that you identify as Eastern Catholic. I was born Roman but transferred.

 

[Hatikvah]

Am I correct that both eastern and roman catholics have to follow “catechism of the catholic church” and the eastern catholic churches do recognize all the councils and creeds (First seven ecumenical councils and Further councils recognised as ecumenical in the Roman Catholic Church)

Well, I don’t know very much about Eastern Catholicism as opposed to the Western Church. However, I’ll note that there’s a Byzantine Catholic Catechism: stnbcaak.orthodoxws.com/files/OurFaith/Our_Faith_Byzantine_Catechism.pdf

 

[m_p_w]

“Different catechism.”

am I correct that each eastern catholic church has its own catechism then?
Furthermore, there are eastern parishes (two different rites) at my area , but are they going to show me the whole catechism (in the book form)?

Am I correct that both eastern and roman catholics have to follow “catechism of the catholic church” and the eastern catholic churches do recognize all the councils and creeds (First seven ecumenical councils and Further councils recognised as ecumenical in the Roman Catholic Church) (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenical_council)??)

for example:- Coptic Orthodox Church do not recognize some(most) of the councils and creeds, but Coptic Catholic Church do recognize all the councils and creeds.

But this part is 100% correct (sorry, but this question makes me go insane because google/wiki doesn’t say anything about it )

And is it possible for Coptic Catholic Church (as an example) to reorganize councils and creeds which Roman Catholic Church does not?

 

[Hatikvah]

Actually, I found a good thread comparing the two. Post #2 has illustrations with explanations, and it explains major theological doctrines as well as more cultural ideas: read here.

 

[m_p_w]

Actually, I found a good thread comparing the two. Post #2 has illustrations with explanations, and it explains major theological doctrines as well as more cultural ideas: read here.

So catechism consists of theological doctrines; therefore, each catholic church has a different one?

 

[Ad_Orientem]

All Ritual Churches accept the same dogma. Expression of that dogma may vary to some extent.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Since the OP’s most urgent concern at the moment seems to be with the various Eastern Catholic Churches’s use (or lack thereof) of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), I would like to address that.

As noted in Pope St. John Paul II’s Apostolic Constitution, Fidei Depositum which promulgated the publication of the Catechism, the Catechism of the Catholic Church “is not intended to replace the local catechisms duly approved by the ecclesiastical authorities, the diocesan Bishops and the Episcopal Conferences…” In fact, John Paul II said that this Catechism is meant to “encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms…”

It would seem, therefore, that the promulgation of the CCC was not mean to supplant local catechisms (including the catechisms of the various sui iuris Eastern Churches), but was meant to be a foundation upon which local catechisms may be built, and a standard by which these new local catechisms would be measured.

That being said, various Eastern Catholic Churches often do have their own catechisms. These catechisms are not created in opposition to the CCC, but as the local application of the truths contained in the CCC, and the expression of those truths within the context of the unique traditions, theological and pastoral approaches, and emphases of the various Eastern Catholic Churches.

I hope that’s helpful.

 

[m_p_w]

Ok I just have one more issue which I am not sure about.

All Ritual Churches accept the same dogma. Expression of that dogma may vary to some exten

(and dogma is system of believe
for example Coptic Catholics believe in Dyothlistism and Dyophysitism, but Coptic Orthodoxes believe in Miaphysitism) → I do realize that now Coptic Orthodox say it is misunderstanding; HOWEVER, that was the case 300 years ago?

I am sorry to repeat this, but I am also interested if the eastern catholics do accept all the councils which roman catholics accept?

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Ok I just have one more issue which I am not sure about.

(and dogma is system of believe
for example Coptic Catholics believe in Dyothlistism and Dyophysitism, but Coptic Orthodoxes believe in Miaphysitism) → I do realize that now Coptic Orthodox say it is misunderstanding; HOWEVER, that was the case 300 years ago?

I am sorry to repeat this, but I am also interested if the eastern catholics do accept all the councils which roman catholics accept?

The major problem with asking whether Eastern Catholic Churches accept all the “ecumenical” councils of the Roman Church is that there is actually no definitive list of ecumenical councils. Even Pope Paul VI referred to the post-Schism councils as “general synods of the West.” We would have to hash out what he actually meant by those words.

There are a good number of Eastern Catholics - including bishops and Patriarchs - who hold that there are only 7 truly ecumenical councils, but that the “general synods of the West” are still orthodox in their teaching. There are others who hold that there have been more than 7 but less than the usual 21. Some will say that, in addition to the 7, Florence, Vatican I and Vatican II are likewise ecumenical. Again, there is no definitive list of ecumenical councils, nor is there universal agreement, even within the Catholic Church, on what constitutes and ecumenical council and what doesn’t.

 

[m_p_w]

The major problem with asking whether Eastern Catholic Churches accept all the “ecumenical” councils of the Roman Church is that there is actually no definitive list of ecumenical councils. Even Pope Paul VI referred to the post-Schism councils as “general synods of the West.” We would have to hash out what he actually meant by those words.

There are a good number of Eastern Catholics - including bishops and Patriarchs - who hold that there are only 7 truly ecumenical councils, but that the “general synods of the West” are still orthodox in their teaching. There are others who hold that there have been more than 7 but less than the usual 21. Some will say that, in addition to the 7, Florence, Vatican I and Vatican II are likewise ecumenical. Again, there is no definitive list of ecumenical councils, nor is there universal agreement, even within the Catholic Church, on what constitutes and ecumenical council and what doesn’t.

So by my understanding, all the eastern catholics (all the rites) accept 7 ecumenical councils, but accepting the other ecumenical councils is personal opinion of every eastern catholic?

Is my understanding correct?

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

So by my understanding, all the eastern catholics (all the rites) accept 7 ecumenical councils, but accepting the other ecumenical councils is personal opinion of every eastern catholic?

Is my understanding correct?

I would say your understanding is an accurate reflection of the way things actually are. Whether or not the personal opinions of Eastern Catholics who only accept 7 ecumenical councils is correct, I do not know, nor do I have an opinion one way or the other.

 

[EyesClosed]

Actually, I found a good thread comparing the two. Post #2 has illustrations with explanations, and it explains major theological doctrines as well as more cultural ideas: read here.

Actually the graphic shown in posting #2 of the thread you referenced is pure nonsense. Worse it’s demeaning, deceitful and inflammatory. It’s truly sad that anyone would create such a divisive piece of garbage.

One has to wonder what sort of Catholic would take such an erroneous cheap shot at the Western Church? Was it an attempt to burnish whatever church they personally belong to? Whatever their reason, shame on those that created it and shame on those who perpetuate it.

 

[Casilda]

That graphic was produced by cnewa.org Catholic Near East Welfare Assoc. A papel agency founded by Pope Pius XI

 

[babochka]

That graphic was produced by cnewa.org Catholic Near East Welfare Assoc. A papel agency founded by Pope Pius XI

I have always found it to be problematic, as does my priest. We have the theology section posted in our parish, but the liturgy section presents a caricature of the modern Latin Rite. Neither the architecture nor the liturgy sections present the Latin Church in its ideal form, yet the Byzantine rite is depicted in its ideal form.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I have always found it to be problematic, as does my priest. We have the theology section posted in our parish, but the liturgy section presents a caricature of the modern Latin Rite. Neither the architecture nor the liturgy sections present the Latin Church in its ideal form, yet the Byzantine rite is depicted in its ideal form.

So true. I remember when I first saw this poster at the Ukrainian Catholic National Shrine in Washington, D.C., I was very unsettled precisely because, as you point out, it presents a caricature of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite contrasted with the ideal form of the Byzantine Rite. That would be akin to a Roman Church posting a similar poster with the ideal form of the Roman Rite contrasted with a highly Latinized Byzantine Liturgy. Not a fair comparison.

 

[SyroMalankara]

So true. I remember when I first saw this poster at the Ukrainian Catholic National Shrine in Washington, D.C., I was very unsettled precisely because, as you point out, it presents a caricature of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite contrasted with the ideal form of the Byzantine Rite. That would be akin to a Roman Church posting a similar poster with the ideal form of the Roman Rite contrasted with a highly Latinized Byzantine Liturgy. Not a fair comparison.

To be fair, it does say the “Roman Rite Today” and the vast majority of Roman Rite Churches in the US are minimalist. There are exceptions.

 

[EyesClosed]

That graphic was produced by cnewa.org Catholic Near East Welfare Assoc. A papel agency founded by Pope Pius XI

They should be ashamed of that publication. Not only is it inaccurate and inflammatory, its creator missed an opportunity to truly explain some of the actual differences between the West and the East.

I have thought about this specific publication (and the motivation for creating it) more than once when pondering why there is such a separation between the West and the East.

 

[EyesClosed]

I have always found it to be problematic, as does my priest. We have the theology section posted in our parish, but the liturgy section presents a caricature of the modern Latin Rite. Neither the architecture nor the liturgy sections present the Latin Church in its ideal form, yet the Byzantine rite is depicted in its ideal form.

Well put. One has to question the mindset and motivation of those that created this document?

While the liturgical/church art/architecture comments are simply rude, the two comments that are most inaccurate and offensive are those about the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ and the Mother Mary.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Well put. One has to question the mindset and motivation of those that created this document?

While the liturgical/church art/architecture comments are simply rude, the two comments that are most inaccurate and offensive are those about the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ and the Mother Mary.

Please be specific about what is offensive.