Eastern Catholic vs Western Catholic Rites

[NYer]

Having grown up with the Traditional Latin Mass (the only one back then), and watching the transformation of churches and liturgy following Vatican Council II, I ‘accepted’ and ‘adjusted’ to most, if not all of the changes. Over the past few years, there has been a serious decline. After battling liturgical abuses at my parish and within my diocese for the better part of 5 years, I decided to explore the Eastern Catholic Churches.

In February of this year, I compiled a list of other RC parishes within the surrounding community, but included two Eastern Rite churches - a Maronite Catholic and a Ukrainian Catholic Church. Each Sunday, I would attend mass at a different parish. The Maronite Catholic Church surfaced on week 3. A friend in CA had prepared me for some of the differences but I still a found myself a bit disoriented. The liturgy, however, grabbed my heart and soul and would not let go. That day, I left church with such a sense of peace. The following Sunday, I decided to return. I felt more comfortable and, once again, this tremendous sense of peace descended on me. By the 3rd week, there was no question that I had ‘come home’.

Many people forget - or do not realize - that Christianity came from Judaism. As the church expanded beyond the realm of Judaism, it adapted itself to the people and cultures in which it took root. This cultural adaptation resulted in the 22 different rites of the Catholic Church today. It is from Jewish roots that the church of Antioch sprung. In fact, the church of Antioch was founded by St. Peter and it was there that the terms “Christian” and “Catholic” were first used. The first Christians were Jews and entire communities came to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Evidence from archaeological studies of Maronite church buildings show that they had earlier been synagogues.

To this day, the Maronite Church retains its Jewish roots more than any other Catholic rite, as evidenced by its use of Aramaic/Syriac and by the prayers which remain faithful to Semantic and Old Testament forms. The Maronite liturgy is one of the oldest in the Catholic Church. St. Peter and other Apostles brought the liturgy of the Last Super to Antioch where it developed in Greek and Syriac concurrently. The early Antioch liturgy is the basis of the Maronite liturgy.

The Consecration in the Maronite Catholic Church is chanted in Aramaic, using the language and words of our Lord at the Last Supper. Communion is by intinction. The priest (and ONLY the priest or bishop), dips the consecrated host into the Precious Blood, places it on the tongue of the communicant, with the words "Receive the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ, for the remission of sin and eternal salvation.

A Roman rite Catholic may attend any Eastern Catholic Liturgy and fulfill his of her obligations at an Eastern Catholic Parish. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole. The Holy Father encourages Roman rite Catholics to visit the Eastern Catholic churches

“The Eastern Churches are the Treasures of the Catholic Church” – Pope John XXIII

Has anyone else in this forum encountered a similar experience?

 

[dutch]

Eastern Catholics are great and I hope one day we can bring the rest of the orthodox into the fold. There Divine Liturgies are much more reverent and beautiful then the typical Latin rite mass celebrated today. Even their translations are more accurate.

The Byzantine Icons are cool too. I attend Eastern Catholic parishes whenever I get the chance. Hopefully, they’ll bring the Latin rite back in line liturgically. I want to go to an Ethiopian Church. I hear they use a model of the ark during their liturgy.

Orietal and western traditions complement each other.

 

[dcmac]

I have had the great pleasure of attending Divine Liturgy service of two different Byzantine Catholic churches as well as a Maronite service. There is no doubt I have found them to be better suited towards the reason for the time we spend in church than most of the Novus Ordo Missae that are abounding in their various forms across this nation.

I prefer the Maronite service for exactly the same reason mentioned above. It is the nearest to the Lord one can ever get. Plus, unlike all other Oriental Catholic Churches (not simply rites, but that is another thread all together) they were never separated from the throne of St. Peter. They have always been in union with Peter and have always been faithful to the roots of their liturgical expressions – even after their altering some time ago – unlike our Novus Ordo Missae!

In fact, my priest-confessor, Fr. Joseph, O.F.M., has advised me to consider one of the few religious societies that allow for either the rite of St. Pius V, or the modified/hybrid Pius VI Novus Ordo Missae, or to canonically switch over to the Maronites for my calling to the priesthood. This is something to which I am in constant thought and prayer about these days. Either way, my Maronite devotions have become a very integral part of my life and the Lebanese and Holy Land families I have come into contact with have made a major contribution to my personal and spiritual life.

While we fulfill our Sunday obligations at an Eastern Catholic Church service, we need to be very careful, for a more serious, canonical, posture is needed for other elements of the faith life…and you can’t really switch back again if you find you are not liking the cup of tea in a few years…know what I mean…Yet, always visist, so as to be breathing from both lungs.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,

Donnchadh

 

[NYer]

dutch:

. I want to go to an Ethiopian Church. I hear they use a model of the ark during their liturgy. .

That is absolutely fascinating! I’m still new to this forum but I found the following information on the Ethiopian Catholic liturgy. Hope the link posts correctly.

catholic-forum.com/churches/kidanemehret/liturgy.html

 

[NYer]

dcmac:

I prefer the Maronite service for exactly the same reason mentioned above. It is the nearest to the Lord one can ever get. Plus, unlike all other Oriental Catholic Churches (not simply rites, but that is another thread all together) they were never separated from the throne of St. Peter. They have always been in union with Peter and have always been faithful to the roots of their liturgical expressions – even after their altering some time ago – unlike our Novus Ordo Missae!

In fact, my priest-confessor, Fr. Joseph, O.F.M., has advised me to consider one of the few religious societies that allow for either the rite of St. Pius V, or the modified/hybrid Pius VI Novus Ordo Missae, or to canonically switch over to the Maronites for my calling to the priesthood. This is something to which I am in constant thought and prayer about these days. Either way, my Maronite devotions have become a very integral part of my life and the Lebanese and Holy Land families I have come into contact with have made a major contribution to my personal and spiritual life.

Thank you for corroborating what I have felt in my heart from the very first experience at a Maronite Catholic liturgy.

Our pastor is Lebanese, attended seminary in Lebanon and then attended Boston College, followed by St. John’s Seminary. He was ordained in Lebanon 3 years ago, at the age of 35, and, like Fr. Mitch Pacwa, is bi-ritual - Maronite and Latin Rite. He speaks 6 languages fluently, has a working knowledge of 3 others and can read Ancient Greek, Latin and Aramaic.

Personally, I am very devoted to Saint Sharbel and have called on his intercession recently, for two friends. In both instances, the response was both positive and swift.

Rest assured of my prayers for you, as you continue on the journey towards ordination! In April, I thrilled to be invited to accompany our pastor to Brooklyn and the Enthronement Ceremony for our new bishop, Gregory John Mansour, who was born in the US. What a marvelous opportunity to witness a procession of religious from so many of the Eastern Rites, along with Justin Cardinal Rigali and the Papal Nuncio.

Thank you for your post to this thread!

 

[Edwin1961]

I have gone ‘full circle’ in my life.
Baptized and Confirmed Byzantine Catholic, school age attended Roman Rite. Eventually dropped out of Church all together but returned to Roman Rite in 1997, and again returned “home” in Oct 2002 to Byzantine Catholic (Rutherian).

For all those who are new to the Eastern Rite, my pastor has a radio program that you can streamlink from the Internet. The program is one twice on Sunday. (6:30AM EST and 11:00 PM EST, in fact I am listening to today’s rebroadcast now)
Go to www.welw.com. Besides, the station plays great oldies pop of the 50’s to 70’s.

Go with God!
Edwin

 

[Crusader]

NYer:

Having grown up with the Traditional Latin Mass (the only one back then), and watching the transformation of churches and liturgy following Vatican Council II, I ‘accepted’ and ‘adjusted’ to most, if not all of the changes. Over the past few years, there has been a serious decline. After battling liturgical abuses at my parish and within my diocese for the better part of 5 years, I decided to explore the Eastern Catholic Churches.

In February of this year, I compiled a list of other RC parishes within the surrounding community, but included two Eastern Rite churches - a Maronite Catholic and a Ukrainian Catholic Church. Each Sunday, I would attend mass at a different parish. The Maronite Catholic Church surfaced on week 3. A friend in CA had prepared me for some of the differences but I still a found myself a bit disoriented. The liturgy, however, grabbed my heart and soul and would not let go. That day, I left church with such a sense of peace. The following Sunday, I decided to return. I felt more comfortable and, once again, this tremendous sense of peace descended on me. By the 3rd week, there was no question that I had ‘come home’.

Many people forget - or do not realize - that Christianity came from Judaism. As the church expanded beyond the realm of Judaism, it adapted itself to the people and cultures in which it took root. This cultural adaptation resulted in the 22 different rites of the Catholic Church today. It is from Jewish roots that the church of Antioch sprung. In fact, the church of Antioch was founded by St. Peter and it was there that the terms “Christian” and “Catholic” were first used. The first Christians were Jews and entire communities came to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Evidence from archaeological studies of Maronite church buildings show that they had earlier been synagogues.

To this day, the Maronite Church retains its Jewish roots more than any other Catholic rite, as evidenced by its use of Aramaic/Syriac and by the prayers which remain faithful to Semantic and Old Testament forms. The Maronite liturgy is one of the oldest in the Catholic Church. St. Peter and other Apostles brought the liturgy of the Last Super to Antioch where it developed in Greek and Syriac concurrently. The early Antioch liturgy is the basis of the Maronite liturgy.

The Consecration in the Maronite Catholic Church is chanted in Aramaic, using the language and words of our Lord at the Last Supper. Communion is by intinction. The priest (and ONLY the priest or bishop), dips the consecrated host into the Precious Blood, places it on the tongue of the communicant, with the words "Receive the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ, for the remission of sin and eternal salvation.

A Roman rite Catholic may attend any Eastern Catholic Liturgy and fulfill his of her obligations at an Eastern Catholic Parish. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole. The Holy Father encourages Roman rite Catholics to visit the Eastern Catholic churches

“The Eastern Churches are the Treasures of the Catholic Church” – Pope John XXIII

Has anyone else in this forum encountered a similar experience?

I am glad you found a home…

The Catholic Church is comprised of twenty-three (23) churches and seven (7) rites.

To illustrate using the east as an example, there is a Ruthenian Catholic Church of the Byzantine Rite. Many (11-12?) different Churches are of the Byzantine Rite. There are also other eastern rites of course.

In the west for instance, there is the Latin Church of the Roman Rite. There are other rites in the Latin Church as well – the Ambrosian and Mozarabic for instance.

 

[dcmac]

Thank you for the kind wishes NYer. You can not imagine all of the roadblocks that come up out of no where when one is discerning the calling to the vocation of holy priesthood. People I never thought would have dropped me like a bad habit did, whilst people I thought for sure would in fact have not. And don’t get me started on the comments from others who are more associates than friends. So, thank you.

I need to make one correction, however, in my statement it ought to read, “Paul VI Novus Ordo Missae” not, “Pius VI Novus Ordo Missae”. Sorry about that…LOL.

As far as I am concerned, the Maronites are a very, very special breed indeed. I suspect that one day the bridge between Jew and Gentile will be the Maronites. One of my Hebrew Catholic e-friends (a priest in London) advised me of this…and…frankly…I agree. There is something very special about them indeed.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,

Donnchadh

P.S. A Ge’ez (Coptic as well as Ethiopian) service is an awesome thing as well. The one I was fortunate to attend, however, was not a Uniate service, rather schismatic Orthodox, so I did not partake of Holy Communion, but it is interesting how close to the Maronite service it really was.

P.P.S. I know an Eritrean (the Cushite people you read about in the Sacred Scriptures) couple who are Ethiopian Orthodox and have their services under the stewardship of the Greeks here and they said the service is also very beautiful…of course their orthodoxy is Ge’ez just like the Egyptians.

 

[NYer]

dcmac:

Thank you for the kind wishes NYer. You can not imagine all of the roadblocks that come up out of no where when one is discerning the calling to the vocation of holy priesthood. People I never thought would have dropped me like a bad habit did, whilst people I thought for sure would in fact have not.

As far as I am concerned, the Maronites are a very, very special breed indeed. I suspect that one day the bridge between Jew and Gentile will be the Maronites. One of my Hebrew Catholic e-friends (a priest in London) advised me of this…and…frankly…I agree. There is something very special about them indeed.

Recently, I read somewhere that for those candidates interested in becoming bi-ritual priests, it is far easier to become a Maronite priest first, and then a Roman priest. Have you ever looked into this? Also, have you explored the Maronite seminaries?

Thank YOU for your comments on bridging the gap between Jew and Gentile. The Maronites also pride themselves on the working relationship they have established with Muslims, in Lebanon.

“The Maronite, works, builds, and plants as if he is celebrating the liturgy. His whole economy has a sacramental taste and a liturgical savoring- the vine and the wheat for the bread and the wine of the Eucharist; the olive tree to make the holy oils; the mulberry plant to weave the altar cloth and the vestments for benediction. All of which are signs of the hereafter.”
Father Michel HAYEK

 

[a_pilgrim]

dcmac:

I prefer the Maronite service for exactly the same reason mentioned above… they were never separated from the throne of St. Peter. They have always been in union with Peter…

Hi, dcmac!

I am thrilled for you that you were able to find a spiritual “home” that satisfies your needs… doubly-thrilled that you were able to do so within the confines of the numerous, rich and varied sacred traditions available within our Catholic Church!

There are numerous efforts underway now, and have been for centuries prior, toward reuniting all our Orthodox brethren under the pastoral care of the Holy Father. Granted, this reunion may still be a long way off, but I think each of us must do our part, no matter how small, to remove the roadblocks that stand in the way.

One of the roadblocks to reunion is the perception that those Churches that left and later returned to the pastoral care of the pope are somehow “less-Catholic” than those who never left in the first place. Of course, we realize and accept the fact that this is not the case! Every Church that is joined together under the Holy Father in Rome as part of the “Holy Catholic Church” is* just as Catholic** as the next!* I believe that it would benefit us all, as well as our future reunification efforts, if we were to make it a point to avoid differentiating between those Churches that left and returned and those that never left in the first place. We must illustrate to our Orthodox brethern that unity within the Catholic Church does not involve a layering or, worse, a “pecking order” based on time of service (I’m sure you can understand their reluctance toward “returning home” if they were to believe that this was the case!).

Once again, dcmac, I share your personal happiness at having found a true “home” within our Catholic Church!

Mnohaja i blahaja l’ita!

a pilgrim

 

[Irish_Melkite]

dutch:

I want to go to an Ethiopian Church.

Dutch,

To go to an Ethiopian Catholic Church, you’ll have a bit of travel to undertake. The only one in the US presently is Kidane-Mehret in Washington, DC

catholicforum.com/churches/kidanemehret/

If you are open to attending an Ethiopian Tewahado (Orthodox) Divine Liturgy, you have a few more choices - some a bit closer to you. I don’t have the link at hand right now, but will post it later if you’re interested.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Irish_Melkite]

a pilgrim:

One of the roadblocks to reunion is the perception that those Churches that left and later returned to the pastoral care of the pope are somehow “less-Catholic” than those who never left in the first place. … I believe that it would benefit us all, as well as our future reunification efforts, if we were to make it a point to avoid differentiating between those Churches that left and returned and those that never left in the first place. We must illustrate to our Orthodox brethern that unity within the Catholic Church does not involve a layering or, worse, a “pecking order” based on time of service

Pilgrim,

Well-said. Since only the Maronites and the Byzantine Italo-Greco-Albanians can legitimately lay claim to never having been separated (and there are those who will argue the Maronite claim), to trumpet the fact of never having separated serves to do little except appear to be playing one-upsmanship.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Irish_Melkite]

dcmac:

A Ge’ez (Coptic as well as Ethiopian) service is an awesome thing as well. The one I was fortunate to attend, however, was not a Uniate service, rather schismatic Orthodox, so I did not partake of Holy Communion, but it is interesting how close to the Maronite service it really was.

P.P.S. I know an Eritrean (the Cushite people you read about in the Sacred Scriptures) couple who are Ethiopian Orthodox and have their services under the stewardship of the Greeks here and they said the service is also very beautiful…of course their orthodoxy is Ge’ez just like the Egyptians.

Donnchadh,

Actually, although the Coptic (Egyptian), Ethiopian, and Eritrean Churches all utilize the Alexandrean Rite, Ge’ez refers solely to the Divine Liturgy of the Ethiopian Catholic Church and its counterpart Ethiopian Orthodox Tawahedo and Eritrean Orthodox Churches, not to the Coptic (Egyptian) Catholic or Orthodox Churches.

Please don’t use the terms “Uniate” and “Schismatic”; both are offensive to the Churches in reference to which they are being applied. I have to admit being surprised that you found the Ethiopian Divine Liturgy to be close to the Maronite Service of the Holy Mysteries; I think of them as extremely different.

Eritrean Catholics are within the Ethiopian (Ge’ez) Catholic Church, which has several eparchial jurisdictions within Eritrea. The Eritrean Orthodox, I believe, now have their own Church and are no longer dependent on the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. I’m curious what you meant by “under the stewardship of the Greeks”? That suggests to me that there is an Eritrean congregation of Greek Orthodox, since there is no canonical link between the Eritrean (Ge’ez) and the Greeks.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Irish_Melkite]

dcmac:

all other Oriental Catholic Churches … They … have always been faithful to the roots of their liturgical expressions – even after their altering some time ago –

Donnchadh,

Actually, the term Oriental Catholic Churches applies only to those using the Coptic, Armenian, Antiochene, and Maronite Rites - not to those of the Byzantine Rites; the latter are properly termed Eastern Catholic Churches.

As to the purity of the Maronite Rite, it has been significantly altered and westernized (it was probably more latinized than any other of the Eastern or Oriental Churches, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankarese Catholic Churches) and is only now beginning, very slowly, to resurrect its historic liturgical patrimony. It still has a long way to go, both in terms of vesture and church architecture particularly, but also in its liturgical form.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Pani_Rose]

I agree with Neil that the Marionites are on the road to recovery. It is a long painful road to follow but well worth it.

Someone mentioned the Marionites seeing themsleves as a bridge. The Melkites also see themselves as a bridge for their Orthodox counterpart the Antiochiean Orthodox. The Melkites also claim to never have been separtated from Rome I beilieve.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Hi Rose,

Pleasure to see you over here .

There have been a few efforts/arguments made over the years that we never separated, but i haven’t heard that theory in a long while. I think it’s pretty much accepted now that our formal reunion occurred in 1724 (?), preceded by a few short-lived periods of partial union prior to that.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Pani_Rose]

Hey Neil,

Here in Birmingham it is a pretty standard thought. Achimandrite Frank has mentioned it several times. Since it came from him, I figured it was pretty accurate.

Thanks Neil, am not quite certain of how I found my way here, but it seems to be an interesting forum.

Pani Rose

 

[aByzantineCatho]

Yep, my Church is Great!

Nice to see many of you western folk are finding this out also.

God Bless!

 

[SentimentalGent]

In the area I live (Northeastern PA), there never seemed to be any problem with Roman Catholics thinking that Eastern Rite Catholics are “less Catholic.” I live near Shenandoah, which has St. Michael’s Ukrainian Catholic Church, the oldest such church in America. Most of the small towns in the area have a Byzantine church (either Ukrainian or Ruthenian, or both). Growing up (I’m 50 now), those churches were usually identified as “the Greek church.” Maybe the harmony came from most of the churches in both rites being founded around the same time by people from the same region of Europe (Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Slovakia,etc.)

I have a foot in both rites. My mother belonged to St. Michael’s, and my father was a member of St. George R.C. Church in Shenandoah, the oldest Lithuanian parish in America. My mother changed rites when they were married and I grew up in the Roman Rite, but I’ve always had a fond affection for my Urkrainian roots.

John

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

I prefer the Maronite service for exactly the same reason mentioned above… they were never separated from the throne of St. Peter. They have always been in union with Peter…

Actually, the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church also was never formally separated from Rome. And there are some who would make the same claim for the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church.

That having been said, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the Maronites nevr lost communion with Rome. Every serious work I’ve ever seen treat this subject say that the Maronites actually embraced Monothelitism for several centuries. It was only during the Crusades that they regained contact with the West and were forced by the Crusaders to accept Christological orthodoxy.

Even then, they kept lapsing/relapsing into heresy at various junctions and didn’t really stabilize themselves into orthodoxy until the 15th century.

It’s still a beautiful Church, though.

Unfortunately, so many of their parishes are so heavily Latinized, it’s not even funny. Most Maronite parishes have Liturgy where priest faces people and unleavened hosts are used. And the churches themselves look, well, Roman.

Now, the Melkites,* that’s * an Eastern Church . . .