Eastern Orthodox saints and relics

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PopePiusXIISupp

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Am I allowed to venerate relics of post schism Orthodox saints?
 
For public veneration they are allowed as longa s they aren’t out and out schismatics.

For private veneration I’m sure you’re allowed to generate anyone really.
 
I found this explanation elsewhere:
The difference must be made in terms of “liturgical veneration” and “private veneration.”

Anyone may pray or honour any Saint of any Church privately, of course. Fr. John Meyendorff (+ memory eternal!) said that “the private veneration of good persons who were not Orthodox is not condemned by Orthodoxy.”

You will find Eastern Catholic parishes who venerate all Orthodox saints, glorified 800 years ago or over the summer!

Rome has and does acknowledge the sanctity of Orthodox saints who lived and died after 1054 AD such as St Gregory Palamas and St Seraphim of Sarov.

As Fr. Archimandrite Sergius taught, “We do not question each other’s canonizations.” RC prelates are invited to and attend Orthodox canonizations (e.g. that of St Herman) and they venerate the icons/relics and take away souvenir icons with them.

Orthodoxy does not accept Catholic saints who lived after 1054 AD although individual Orthodox do venerate Catholic saints privately (St Francis, St Bernadette, St Therese of Lisieux).

The canonization process for EC saints is the same as that for Latin Catholic saints -
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I agree with this position, FWIW. I am, however an EC.
 
Casilda said:
I found this explanation elsewhere:

I agree with this position, FWIW. I am, however an EC.
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Ditto (although I’m not an EC). And the short answer to your question is yes…you may certainly venerate relics of post-schism Orthodox saints! 👍
 
prodromos said:
You have Eastern Catholic Churches where they openly venerate St Mark of Ephesus 🤷
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Just a you can find some catholic priests and bishops who teach women clergy, homesexual acceptance and other weird things openly.

Such things including the veneration of schismatics are forbidden but that’s doesn’t stop people from doing what they want. Catholicism isn’t as centralized as everyone thinks. Many things go unnoticed by Rome who really entrust the local clergy to protect the church from scandalous things like this.

But officially it is not allowed. He isn’t on the official list of saints of any eastern Catholic Church. This is because, unlike say… a Gregory Palamas, he is primarily vernated for his opposition to communion with Rome (Schismatic). From the Catholic POV, he isn’t an example to look up to.
 
Wandile said:
Just a you can find some catholic priests and bishops who teach women clergy, homesexual acceptance and other weird things openly.

Such things including the veneration of schismatics are forbidden but that’s doesn’t stop people from doing what they want. Catholicism isn’t as centralized as everyone thinks. Many things go unnoticed by Rome who really entrust the local clergy to protect the church from scandalous things like this.

But officially it is not allowed. He isn’t on the official list of saints of any eastern Catholic Church. This is because, unlike say… a Gregory Palamas, he is primarily vernated for his opposition to communion with Rome (Schismatic). From the Catholic POV, he isn’t an example to look up to.
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No, St Mark of Ephesus is primarily venerated for standing up for the Orthodox faith in the face of tremendous pressure to compromise.
 
prodromos said:
No, St Mark of Ephesus is primarily venerated for standing up for the Orthodox faith in the face of tremendous pressure to compromise.
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You still do realize he was keeping the “Orthodox” faith against the Roman church. No matter how you phrase it. His position is in opposition to Rome. That was the pressure he was up against, keep EO faith or accept Roman faith and union.

He is a scandalous figure to publicly venerate from the catholic perspective.

Here is the text of the kontakion:

"As one clad in invincible armour, thou didst cast down the pride of the Western rebellion. Thou didst become an instrument of the Comforter and shone forth as Orthodoxy’s defender. Therefore we cry to thee: Rejoice, O Mark, boast of the Orthodox!"

Actually, there really is not much to Mark of Ephesus besides his “heroic” opposition to the West. In his life there isn’t much that is significant if you remove his arguments against Western theology, which are full of erroneous understandings of Latin theology (Bp. Bessarion, a Greek scholar and theologian who sided with the Latins at Florence, ripped apart Mark’s arguments quite thoroughly).

He may have been a holy man in his private life, and he might be a Saint, but there’s not much in his life that stands out as “saintly” unless you accept his polemics against Latin theology as the correct representation of the Faith, something that Catholics can’t really accept.

Peace and God bless!
 
Wandile said:
In his life there isn’t much that is significant if you remove his arguments against Western theology, which are full of erroneous understandings of Latin theology
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What are these “erroneous understandings”?
 
Wandile said:
Actually, there really is not much to Mark of Ephesus besides his “heroic” opposition to the West. In his life there isn’t much that is significant if you remove his arguments against Western theology,
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And how have you come to that conclusion? Have you ever read the life of St. Mark of Ephesus?
Wandile said:
which are full of erroneous understandings of Latin theology (Bp. Bessarion, a Greek scholar and theologian who sided with the Latins at Florence, ripped apart Mark’s arguments quite thoroughly).
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How would you know? St. Mark’s writings are not available in English, and as far as I know, you do not read Greek. Furthermore, you think Bessarion “won” the argument on the basis of second hand accounts of the council which are often biased against St. Mark (an inevitability given how English-language publications tend to have a bias towards traditional Western Christianity). Have you ever read any accounts of the council which are sympathetic to him? Reality is more complex (and even interesting) than the sanitized caricature you are presenting.
 
I would respond but it’s besides the point of the thread.

My point is that venerating schismatics publicly is forbidden but privately one may venerate who they want
 
Wandile said:
I would respond but it’s besides the point of the thread.

My point is that venerating schismatics publicly is forbidden but privately one may venerate who they want
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Since St Mark of Ephesus was never in communion with Rome, he can hardly be called a schismatic, can he.👍
 
A schismatic is not just someone who breaks union, but someone who extremely opposes it too with full knowledge of what they are doing.
 
Wandile said:
A schismatic is not just someone who breaks union, but someone who extremely opposes it too with full knowledge of what they are doing.
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Where did you find the above definition?
Just curious.
 
Wandile said:
I would respond but it’s besides the point of the thread.

My point is that venerating schismatics publicly is forbidden but privately one may venerate who they want
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Isn’t veneration (by view of the Catholic Church) considered public when done on Church property or in a Church service of some type? If so, wouldn’t the rules for this only apply on Catholic Church property and for Catholic Church services/liturgies? If so, when veneration is done on the grounds of an Orthodox Church during their services or Divine Liturgy, the Catholic Church would have no jurisdiction to stop the public veneration of the relics…and Catholics are encouraged to learn more about the Orthodox Church, their services, their history, their saints, etc… Therefore, couldn’t one publicly venerate the relics of any Orthodox saint provided they are available for public veneration within the confines of Orthodoxy somehow? Just my thoughts…
 
Would it not be alright as long as your veneration is not intended to make a point against the supreme authority of the bishop of Rome or could lead others to believe so? That would seem highly unlikely indeed.
 
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