Easterners and Ash Wed

[turtleoompa]

Two questions. What do you mean by rug burns? And what do you mean by clean monday? I am Roman Catholic. I am also very interested in the traditions of the eastern and orthodox faiths.

 

[Madaglan]

Two questions. What do you mean by rug burns? And what do you mean by clean monday? I am Roman Catholic. I am also very interested in the traditions of the eastern and orthodox faiths.

In the Byzantine tradition, many full prostrations are made during services of Great Lent. In making these prostrations, worshipers actually touch their foreheads to the ground. In Latin Catholicism, this is not as common a liturgical form (kneeling instead used), although you may see something like the Eastern prostration during Eucharistic Adoration.

Clean Monday is celebrated in connection with the beginning of Lent, which is celebrated at Forgiveness Vespers the day before in the evening. Clean Monday is regarded the first day of Lent for Eastern Christians, just as Ash Wednesday is for Western Christians. Forgiveness Vespers on Sunday night is actually the more memorable service, when each person in the church kisses everyone else and says that they forgive them of sins.

 

[turtleoompa]

Thankyou for your reply.

 

[5Loaves]

Two questions. What do you mean by rug burns?

Madaglan gave you a proper answer.
Also, it’s a way of joking about some of the things in the East, often about things that are more excessive than if the West. “You know you’re Orthodox if …when the priest says, “Let us complete our prayer to the Lord”, there’s still half an hour to go…You are more comfortable standing in church than sitting…At the end of Holy Week, you have rug burns on your forehead…” They’re just things we can laugh about because they are different and we love them, and recognize ourselves in them.

Forgiveness Vespers on Sunday night is actually the more memorable service, when each person in the church kisses everyone else and says that they forgive them of sins.

turtleoompa: Just to add to what Madaglan said, the priest begins the request to us for forgiveness for anything he has done this year to harm us etc. In my parish then the other priest if there is one, and deacons in turn go to the priest and says “God forgives and I forgive you. Forgive me.”, or something similar, and they kiss left cheek and right. Then, in my parish, that person stands next to the priest/s and deacon/s and the next person approaches the priest and repeats the phrase, “God forgives and I forgive you. Forgive me.” or something similar, and then moves on the the next person, so each pair as they meet asks one another for forgiveness and give forgiveness until finally everyone is standing in a line beside the priest/s and deacon/s and one another and has asked forgiveness of and given forgiveness to everyone present.

This asking forgiveness continues to occur during Great Lent after Forgiveness Vespers tho not with the kissing and in such a structured way. Clean Monday. Tues., and Thurs the church will usually have Great Compline (evening prayer) and the reading (chanting) of the Great Canon of St. Andrew of Crete. The Great Canon is remotely like the reading of God though salvation history from Genesis forward that is done at the Easter Vigil, but with a very penitential lens, along with gratitude, and praise. I have been the prodigal son, I have been the man set upon by thieves… During this prostrations are done. The language of the Great Canon is very beautiful, and like all liturgy it is chanted. Like most liturgical services this would be a couple of hours. Of course the priests are prostrating as well. On Wed and Fri that week and every week in Great Lent we have the Presanctified Liturgy with Holy Eucharist that was consecrated the previous Sunday. The Liturgy is very rich and is similar in length to a Divine Liturgy so and hour and a half or so.

If you have access to an Eastern Catholic or Orthodox church, turtleoompa, going for the Presanctified Liturgy during Great Lent would be something you might consider. At the EC church of course you can take Eucharist. Also, there would likely be a festal vigil or vespers the night before the Announciation March 25. These do not include Eucharist and are a wonderful time to go to an EC or Orthodox church.

 

[Aramis]

Madaglan gave you a proper answer.
Also, it’s a way of joking about some of the things in the East, often about things that are more excessive than if the West. “You know you’re Orthodox if …when the priest says, “Let us complete our prayer to the Lord”, there’s still half an hour to go…You are more comfortable standing in church than sitting…At the end of Holy Week, you have rug burns on your forehead…” They’re just things we can laugh about because they are different and we love them, and recognize ourselves in them.

And they are exaggerations, not outright fabrications… every so often someone new gets overzealous and does rub their forehead to irritation.

And sometimes, it really is half an hour from “Let us complete…” until the end of the closing hymn… not always.

And we do stand more than sit, even in the Ruthenian Church…

The humor is in the exaggeration… and that sometimes, it isn’t.

Another one: You see the words, “Pray for…” and immediately start chanting “Lord Have Mercy!”

 

[turtleoompa]

Thankyou again. I really am very interested in the traditions of the Eastern Rites and Orthodox. I am very much into the old traditions of the Church. A lot of these traditions can be very beautiful and full of meaning.

 

[Milliardo]

Thankyou again. I really am very interested in the traditions of the Eastern Rites and Orthodox. I am very much into the old traditions of the Church. A lot of these traditions can be very beautiful and full of meaning.

The beauty of the East and its steadfastness to the ancient Faith is one of the reasons that has compelled me to become Orthodox.