Economic Systems

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YoungApologist3

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With all the politics that have been going on recently, I have noticed a distinct gap in my knowledge of Church Teaching regarding social issues, specifically economic systems. Obviously, the Church rejects Communism and Socialism. It has recently come to my attention that many Catholics are under the impression that Capitalism isn’t tolerable, either. These people quote, often, Chesterton and certain Popes. I have a number of questions, which can be made into their own posts if necessary.
  • Does the Church reject a free market? If so, why?
  • How do you define Capitalism?
  • Does the Church reject your definition of Capitalism? If so, why?
  • Does She reject monopolies? If so, why?
  • Could you point to an example of a country, current or historical, which has or had an Economic System in line with what the Church teaches?
Please keep this civil.
Thank you.😀
 
I wouldn’t say the Church rejects the free market, Chesterton was just as critical of capitalism as he was of socialism, too much in the hands of too few. There is a political ideology, that is based on Catholic thought, called distributism, it has a really unfortunate name, because people mistake it for socialism, which is really stupid given that the entire prospect of it is that private property should be widespread, look into it, I think we’d be a lot better off if we built something off of this. Obviously, because of the way certain countries are set up we might not be able to do it all at once, but I think we could pull it off if we really tried.
 
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Thanks for the reply. I’ve looked into distributism a bit before starting this thread, and I’ve always been under the impression that that’s how most people who align to capitalism thought, at least regarding the major issues. In my head, capitalism has always been a synonym for free market in the most pure sense. I don’t think most “capitalists” think that we need the upper class to support the lower classes, and I think most “capitalists” would like as much done locally as possible; these are, from what I can discern, the main tenets of distributism. Feel free to correct me on that. Pretty much my only problem with distributism would be, does it work? Can you point to a time or place that follows these tenets? If it’s in the past, why do they not follow distributism today? Also, I’ve seen a “distributist” argue for population control- which I am utterly against, since it goes against the Church teaching that we must be open to life- but I don’t think most “distributists” would agree with population control. Obviously, whatever we have now in the U.S. isn’t ideal, but I don’t really consider it the best example of a free market.

I am Catholic before I am a “capitalist,” a conservative, an American, or anything else; I’m willing to do whatever it takes to align with the Catholic Church. I’m just trying to find out what she says.
 
Have you looked this up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I would provide references and links, and may do so later, but right now I have to get the kids off to school.

If you like to read, also take a look at DOCAT (as in “what to do” and Catechism), a guide to Catholic Social Teaching which is based on the Catechism.
 
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YoungApologist3 said:
I have a number of questions, which can be made into their own posts if necessary.
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One word labels such as these are rarely sufficiently defined to evaluate simply nor are they entirely good or bad. The Church takes issue with behaviours in the main and many of the terms you use can include good and bad behaviours. I doubt the Church takes a moral position on many of these terms.
 
YoungApologist3 said:
With all the politics that have been going on recently, I have noticed a distinct gap in my knowledge of Church Teaching regarding social issues, specifically economic systems. Obviously, the Church rejects Communism and Socialism. It has recently come to my attention that many Catholics are under the impression that Capitalism isn’t tolerable, either. These people quote, often, Chesterton and certain Popes. I have a number of questions, which can be made into their own posts if necessary.
  • Does the Church reject a free market? If so, why?
  • How do you define Capitalism?
  • Does the Church reject your definition of Capitalism? If so, why?
  • Does She reject monopolies? If so, why?
  • Could you point to an example of a country, current or historical, which has or had an Economic System in line with what the Church teaches?
Please keep this civil.
Thank you.😀
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Here is the most relevant section of the Catechism - paragraph 2425:
The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with “communism” or “socialism.” She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of “capitalism,” individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor. Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for “there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market.” Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.
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As another poster noted, the Church does not reject systems based on a one-word description. Communism and socialism are mentioned, but only as examples of what is really objectionable, and that is “totalitarian and atheistic ideologies.” So if there is a system that shares some of the characteristics of socialism, but does not include a “totalitarian and atheistic ideology,” the Church does not automatically reject it just because someone decides to call it socialism. (For example, Social Security has been called socialism by its opponents, but would not necessarily be condemned by the Church.)

Similarly, the Church does not reject capitalism either - only those implementations of capitalism that promote “individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor.”
 
I know that during the cold war the Catholic Church was vehement in opposing Communism, but I think that had less to do with it’s economics and more to do with it’s State Atheism and Totalitarianism and Rampant Atrocities. I don’t know how the church would react to a communist democracy that allowed complete freedom of religion.

On the other side, I know the Church has criticized several things that are common in Capitalistic Societies (lack of charity, placing too much value on money, wastefulness, etc).
 
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I love that you mentioned Chesterton he is amazing at understanding dualism. I think the economy should be based on these principles.
  1. People should be free to do what they love and be able to support themselves by doing it.
  2. All people have the ability to contribute something to society including the those with special challenges.
  3. All should be willing to work even if what they have to offer seems small to some.
  4. When individuals have earned enough money to support their wants and needs, then they should give the rest of their money away., they don’t need it, why hang onto it.
    5 I believe the wealthy want to do this but they don’t want to just give it away because they have a fear of enabling people to not work, or in allowing none for profits to use it to make themselves rich.
    6 I also believe in providing grants that need not be paid back as a means of helping the poor get on their feet but this process needs to be short and with a goal and a requirement to provide your own way with in a year.
When I have seen these principles in action I have seen individuals rise out of poverty and stay out of poverty.
 
YoungApologist3 said:
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LeafByNiggle:
individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor
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What exactly would this mean? I’m not sure I understand.
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I am just quoting the Catechism. I am no expert in interpreting it. But I would guess that it means, for example, a factory that has no regard for its workers beyond what it will take to keep them coming to work.
 
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