Educational Ethics

[Meggie]

I’m presenting a situation for my Philosophy club to debate. Its not for a paper, I just want to be prepared for debate. I already have my opinions on the matter.

It pertains to age of reason and parental responsibility.

Names are changed to protect privacy

Keith, age 10, is a charming, friendly boy. He’s an only child of a teacher and a restraunt manager, a bit awkward, but involved in school activities and typically is kind to everyone he meets.
Due to the recent effects that bullying has been blamed on several area schools develop a typical “zero tolerance” policy including verbal bulling, however, this document includes retribution (need to take classes, fines, suspention, manditory voulenteer work) for any teacher who sees overt bullying or learns of it and does nothing.

At the same time Keith has developed a defiant/lazy strek of lack of hygene. After a month long battle his mother decides to let him suffer the natural consequences of not helping with the laundry, not washing himself and not brushing his teeth. (at this point he’d lost all privalages and didn’t care). She hoped peer pressure would swing her son back to taking care of himself. Keith’s mom informed his homeroom teacher and went on to teach her middle school classes (conjoined schools).

Three days later Keith was badly verbally bullied directly for his lack of hygene. He came home in tears but his parents gave him little sympathy except to explain that they couldn’t always protect him from the world and in his disobedeiance he’d made it imposible for them to teach him the easy way.

Kieth was furious at his parent’s attitudes. He didn’t shape up hygenically and he continued to be teased. A week later he wrote a letter to the princible of his school without his parents knowing and told him the situation saying he didn’t feel safe at school and saying that his mom was a teacher and hadn’t reported the bullying she knew about.

I know the kid and i didn’t believe the situation until I saw the letter in his own handwriting. It seemed like total, massive manipulation to get his own way to me.

Ethic question 1:
Is Kieth within the age of reason?
If so should he be punished for trying to get his mother in trouble?
If he is should he be punished for his defiance?
How young is too young to manipulate rules?
If not should Kieth’s parents be charged with neglet?
If he’s not of the age of reason then is his continued defiance of his parent’s rules simply the affect of bad parenting?

Question 2
Should Kieth’s mom be punished as a teacher who covered up bullying?

Finally:

Especally for those of you who are parents (only one of the three proffers in the club has kids, so I don’t know how much I’ll need to debate this) does natural consequences seem like a fair punishment? Did Keith’s parents deliberly set him up for bullying or did the not realize what they were doing?

 

[Chovy]

Great questions. I’m not a mommy but I am a proud auntie. Here are my opinions.

Ethic question 1:
Is Kieth within the age of reason? Yes. Generally, I consider a child above the age of 5/6 to be within the age of reason.

If so should he be punished for trying to get his mother in trouble?
Maybe. Not enough information available to make that determination.

If he is should he be punished for his defiance? Same ansewr as above.

How young is too young to manipulate rules? Our former foster baby used to cry until we’d come in and get her, and as soon as she saw us, she’d begin laughing. She was only 6 months old. I think children as young as 2 or 3 know how to manipulate rules. At Keith’s age, his ability to manipulate rules is much higher.

If not should Kieth’s parents be charged with neglet? Absolutely NOT.

If he’s not of the age of reason then is his continued defiance of his parent’s rules simply the affect of bad parenting?

There is not enough information to tell. Keith sounds like he has other issues going on and might benefit from counseling.

Question 2
Should Kieth’s mom be punished as a teacher who covered up bullying? In my opinion, no. How she handles things in her own home should be considered separate and apart from how she handles things at work.

Finally:

Especally for those of you who are parents (only one of the three proffers in the club has kids, so I don’t know how much I’ll need to debate this) does natural consequences seem like a fair punishment? Did Keith’s parents deliberly set him up for bullying or did the not realize what they were doing?

Verbal bullying has always gone on in some fashion or another and frankly I think right now too much is being made of it. In my opinion, Keith’s parents’ consequences were fair. Their response to when he was crying should have also included some guidance and questioning on what Keith thought he could do to fix the problem. (i.e have better hygiene)., which wasn’t detailed but every parent makes errors.

My parents had one disciplinary threat after grounding, which was going to public school. Public school wasn’t the threat, the threat was that they wouldn’t purchase us any clothes to wear to public school and we would have to wear our uniforms and suffer the consequences. The result, 5 catholic school graduates, 5 college graduates, 5 masters degrees, 5 productive, well-adjusted Catholic adults.

To be fair, my husband has a completely opposite opinion from me on all of the above.

 

[HouseArrest]

I’m thinking this is a true story because “names have been changed”…Okay and now I’m reading that you saw an actual letter so it’s real…

I am thinking about my own 10 year old son, his 4 male cousins around this same age, his friends, and all the parents and would never guess this is how the whole scene would play out with any of them, which sort of leaves me wondering if there is something else bothering this boy…

I don’t think the parent/teacher should be reprimanded. First of all is she even his teacher? Maybe for one class or something? Besides, did she witness the verbal abuse or did he just tell her about it? There’s a big difference.

I first of all think the policy is ridiculous but I suppose that’s not the question here…and second of all do not think kids should have this “power” over teachers. He should definitely be reprimanded for writing that letter. It’s one thing to write a letter informing the principal that you are being harrassed to bring attention to it, but clearly from what you’ve written he sent the letter to “tell on” his teacher/mother.

The parents should not be charged with neglect. I’m assuming there is a toothbrush there all he had to do was use it.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

Ethic question 1:
Is Kieth within the age of reason?
Barring any mental disturbances - yes. It sounds like the parents don’t think there is a mental issue here. It sounds like there’s a power struggle going on.

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If so should he be punished for trying to get his mother in trouble?
Yes.

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If he is should he be punished for his defiance?
The natural consequences are enough.

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How young is too young to manipulate rules?
I’ve seen 2 yr olds do it. Seriously. Children are born manipulaters. They are far smarter than people give them credit for. It is not a sign of bad parenting or a bad kid. It’s all about testing their limits.

If not should Kieth’s parents be charged with neglet?
As another posted, there was no negect. The means to better hygene were there for him to use and his parents were doing all they could to make him use them. Some boys just go through a phase where they hate baths for some reason.

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If he’s not of the age of reason then is his continued defiance of his parent’s rules simply the affect of bad parenting?
No. He is of the age of reason and he has has free will. The use of free will is not a sign of bad parenting, it’s a sign of a human making their own choices. Now if they hadn’t taught him proper hygene or weren’t trying to correct his behavior - that would be bad parenting.

Question 2
Should Kieth’s mom be punished as a teacher who covered up bullying?
No. I would also be interested in knowing precisely what was said by the so-called bullies. Name calling? Refusing to play with him? Beating him up? If they said, “I don’t wanna sit near the stinky boy - gross.” or something similiar. I don’t know that I’d even call that bullying as much as the brutal honesty that children are known for. If they been physical - that’s very different.

does natural consequences seem like a fair punishment? Did Keith’s parents deliberly set him up for bullying or did the not realize what they were doing?
Natural consequences is usually preferred in our home and I think very fair. It’s a logical cause - effect situation vs a parent’s arbitrary punishment that may not be directly related. For example, you didn’t shower, so stink, so no one wants to sit near the kid who stinks, so take a shower. vs you didn’t shower, so mom took away your playstation.

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It sounds like the parents most certainly did set him up for bullying. They said they hoped peer pressure would influence him. Let’s face it, peer pressure is usually just another word for bullying of some degree. I don’t think all of it is bad either. We all deal with pressure to conform, at home, at work, at church, in sports, and so forth. Some we must learn to see as negative influence. But much is basic civility - how to dress and speak respectfully at work for example or face being ostracized or a job loss for example.