Elderly, lonely, Mass

[dorothy_smith]

I hold the belief that everyone has the right to social inclusion. Daily Mass plays an important role in this because it gives elderly and lonely folk a place to gather (mass) and in doing so gives them a sense of belonging – a feeling of being part of the community. (which is a good thing – maybe that is what God intended Mass to be all about).

However, many righteous people never attend any Masses at all. Do you think that God looks any less favourable upon them? I am asking because I have met a few wonderfully kind people in my life who have not been church goers.

 

[lak611]

I hold the belief that everyone has the right to social inclusion. Daily Mass plays an important role in this because it gives elderly and lonely folk a place to gather (mass) and in doing so gives them a sense of belonging – a feeling of being part of the community. (which is a good thing – maybe that is what God intended Mass to be all about).

However, many righteous people never attend any Masses at all. Do you think that God looks any less favourable upon them? I am asking because I have met a few wonderfully kind people in my life who have not been church goers.

Are these people you know who never attend any Masses Catholic? Are they elderly and unable to attend Mass because they have no one to take them? Perhaps you could offer them a ride to Mass with you.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

While it is certainly a great idea to offer the elderly Catholic the opportunity to attend daily Mass, the Mass is not “meant” to be a purely social opportunity. It is a Sacrifice to God. While celebrated often in ‘community’, a Mass is valid if only the priest himself, offering the Mass, is present, so ‘community’ is not necessary to Mass.

I find the idea that God ‘might have intended the mass to give people a feeling of belonging to a community’ a bit jarring. God isn’t here for our entertainment nor even to provide us with ‘good vibrations’ or ‘fellowship’.

A ‘righteous Catholic’ who ‘never attends Mass at all’ (and by this I’m assuming you mean Sunday mass–isn’t a righteous Catholic by definition. Don’t mean to sound harsh, but unless there is a legitimate reason (illness, caregiving, or grave reason) he/she misses, he/she is in mortal sin. Maybe less ‘culpable’ because of poor catechesis or understanding (though the ‘elderly’ of 65 and over most likely had an excellent catechesis in their youth), but still culpable.

Yes, God is the ultimate judge and He is merciful–yet just. So keep everyone in your prayers but IMO you’d do better not focusing so much on getting everybody their ‘right to social inclusion’ but stressing instead our responsibilities as Catholics to examine our consciences, to confess our sins, do penance, and THEN to celebrate our renewal in Christ in the sacrifice of the most holy Mass.

IOW, start taking those elderly (and not-so-elderly) Catholics to weekly confession/reconcilation before Mass first!

 

[PauloFreire2]

The more we engage in communion, the better. Yes…God must look more favorably on the devout. Being devout is hard work. It’s a great testament to one’s commitment. I have seldom been devout, but I’m trying harder now than ever.

 

[ThePenitent]

Regarding the post by dorothy_smith – Part 1

The Eucharistic Prayer specifically says that we are gathered as a community of faith, and the Kiss of Peace is a representation of that. But the sacrificial offering made at Mass is, first and foremost, a deeply spiritual act that takes place within the individual soul. In my view, God did not intend for the Mass to give people “a sense of belonging – a feeling of being part of the community”; God intends for the Mass to be an eternal offering of the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Third Person of the Holy Trinity, as reparation for the sins of the human race so that we, his creatures, my be reconciled to God and have the opportunity to be united with Him in heaven. Because the Church is the body of Christ and attempts to serve the temporal needs of its flock, it has strong social and communal elements such as various clubs and committees which not only perform certain services for the church, but that also have social activities – and yet, it is NOT a social club.

All persons of faith should be trying to develop a solid and loving relationship with God, and attempting to extend that love to one’s fellow man. The coffee get-together after daily Mass (at some churches) is a wonderful opportunity for social interaction so long as it is kept in its proper perspective. That is, not to speak gossip of one’s neighbors or to make snide comments about something you don’t like, but to seek opportunities to help one’s neighbors and to thank your priest for all the things he does for the parish. Indeed, if the priest is joining the get-together for coffee, you can ask him some questions about your Catholic faith which could be of benefit to everyone in attendance. I really like it when the priest “takes command” of the coffee get-together and opens the floor to questions and discussion as a means of sharing, bolstering, and learning more about our faith – although this is probably not the right setting to challenge him on the more controversial issues of the day. I could go on about our senior citizens, daily Mass, the Church as a social club, etc but I think Tantum ergo and I have shredded you enough about that element in your post.

Yeah, sorry – I’ll bet you thought your post was fairly innocuous: you expressed some sweet thoughts about the elderly and loneliness, then followed it up with an innocent question. Ah, not so – the devil is in the details! I would encourage you to study your faith more, as well as some basic philosophy and theology. Indeed, anyone more knowledgeable or faithful than myself could easily spend 10,000 words shredding this post of mine! If we are diligent, persistent, and faithful to the promptings of the Holy Spirit each of us can move up that ladder toward right thought, right intention, right action, true faith, true hope, true love, and eternal salvation. If Tantum ergo and I have been rude or blunt in our comments I apologize – we should all try to have patience for one another, but we must remain firm in our impatience with error (wrong thought, wrong intention, wrong action do not lead to heaven! indeed, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and sweet-sounding epithets).

 

[ThePenitent]

Regarding the post by dorothy_smith – Part 2

Let’s talk about the question you posed: “many righteous people never attend any Masses at all. Do you think that God looks any less favourable upon them? I am asking because I have met a few wonderfully kind people in my life who have not been church goers.”

So far as we can tell, entry into heaven is not a popularity contest. Let me throw some things at you, which I am quoting from memory without a Bible in front of me so please forgive the obvious misquotes – but I trust you will get the idea. “Wide is the path that leads to damnation, but narrow is the gate that leads to salvation.” “Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect.” “God does not judge as we judge.” “Not every person who prays ‘Lord, Lord!’ will by welcomed by my Father who is in heaven.” “You shall be judged with every idle word you have spoken.” (Wow, some of those quotes are way off – I could fix these and give you a lot more, but I don’t have time for adequate research right now).

So you see, we are called to be perfect, to be Christ (alter Christi) – not just a wonderfully kind person who never goes to church. Of course, we can go to Mass every day, but if our faith is untrue and we do not have love, then we are not in a good place, either. A person can be “righteous” by some standard that you or I have in our heads, but what is important is if this person is righteous in the eyes of God. Salvation depends on more than the externals – it is all about the interior of your soul, as supported by your actions. Protestants believe in faith alone, we believe in faith and works: works complete our faith, works perfect our faith, works enliven and strengthen our faith. So it is both internal and external.

I could go on ad infinitum – as you can tell, I have no talent for making a succinct, well-put phrase. A wiser person could give you a complete to-the-point response in 100 words. Sadly, hower, I cannot – and now I must go. But let me make one last point.

I like to judge – I think we should all judge! Making judgments has gotten a bad reputation in this modern, secular world of ours. We judge that this guy is not someone I want dating our daughter; or that these clothes are not what I want her to be wearing; drugs, alcohol, pre-marital sex, abortion are all bad things; and the list goes on. As Christians, we try to judge things and behaviors – but not people; that is for God alone. When thinking about things in a religious context, we must try to look at things through the eyes of God as seen from the teachings of the Church – and not judge as the world judges. The world says that this person is a sweet and kind person who should go to heaven, but God sees that the person in question is an atheist and has no place in heaven. Your post seemed to be COMPLETELY written from a viewpoint of this modern world, and not from a position of faith attempting to see things as God sees them or as the Church teaches them.

I am certain that the responses you have been getting to your post was not what you were expecting. But please don’t let that scare you off! Instead, try moving a step up that ladder I mentioned earlier. God bless!

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I hold the belief that everyone has the right to social inclusion. Daily Mass plays an important role in this because it gives elderly and lonely folk a place to gather (mass) and in doing so gives them a sense of belonging – a feeling of being part of the community. (which is a good thing – maybe that is what God intended Mass to be all about).

However, many righteous people never attend any Masses at all. Do you think that God looks any less favourable upon them? I am asking because I have met a few wonderfully kind people in my life who have not been church goers.

I can see your viewpoint. I attend Mass daily and although I am not elderly there are a few who are and they are there whatever the weather. These are very elderly who get out of bed every morning, get into their cars and brave 20 below wind chills. They may be lonely or not, but I admire their perseverance as there are many Catholics who hardly make it to Mass on Sundays during good weather. I can’t help but think it might be the human interaction…just being amongst other people that they see every day that makes them feel good. I know I enjoy seeing the same people everyday and have come to know their names. What a better way to celebrate the love of our Lord but to share with others a kind word, a smile or a pat on the back after Mass? Mass is good for soul…in more ways than one.

:heart:Blyss

 

[dorothy_smith]

But the sacrificial offering made at Mass is, first and foremost, a deeply spiritual act that takes place within the individual soul. In my view, God did not intend for the Mass to give people “a sense of belonging – a feeling of being part of the community”;

I respectfully disagree. Jesus purposely wanted His last supper (the Mass) to be a social event. Jesus gathered His disciples together (forming a social bond – a discipleship). He could have chosen to meet His disciples individually but He didn’t. He must have wanted it to be a social gathering where each individual felt part of a group, a sense of belonging, a feeling of inclusion. What better way to achieve this than the breaking of bread and drinking of wine (a last supper/ meal/ party). This mergence of love and fellowship mirrored an integral part of His metaphorical message of sacrifice.

 

[dorothy_smith]

I can’t help but think it might be the human interaction…just being amongst other people that they see every day that makes them feel good. I know I enjoy seeing the same people everyday and have come to know their names. What a better way to celebrate the love of our Lord but to share with others a kind word, a smile or a pat on the back after Mass? Mass is good for soul…in more ways than one.

:heart:Blyss

The same here. We don’t have coffee meetings or anything. But we do know each other by sight. Even a nod or a smile from a familiar face gives me (and others) a great deal of comfort.

 

[jmcrae]

I respectfully disagree. Jesus purposely wanted His last supper (the Mass) to be a social event. Jesus gathered His disciples together (forming a social bond – a discipleship). He could have chosen to meet His disciples individually but He didn’t. He must have wanted it to be a social gathering where each individual felt part of a group, a sense of belonging, a feeling of inclusion. What better way to achieve this than the breaking of bread and drinking of wine (a last supper/ meal/ party). This mergence of love and fellowship mirrored an integral part of His metaphorical message of sacrifice.

This is such a total misunderstanding of what was going on at the Last Supper that it’s difficult to know where to begin.

First, Jesus was already with the Disciples - they could have gone out for dinner anywhere. Jesus had specific reasons for choosing the Upper Room, and for selecting only the 12 to go there with Him.

Second, it wasn’t just any meal; it was the Passover Supper. You can read about what they were probably doing up there in Exodus 12 - read the entire chapter; it’s very interesting.

Third, it wasn’t random. Jesus knew that He had only hours to live, and that He needed to establish the Sacraments of the Church as quickly as possible.

Several things occurred at the Last Supper, but most importantly for us, Jesus instituted the Mass and established the Christian priesthood.

It wasn’t about socializing or about feeling good - it was about following God’s directive to sacrifice the lamb in remembrance of the deliverance from Egypt, and Jesus causing the disciples to know (though not yet understand, since the events hadn’t happened yet) that He was the ultimate Lamb of Sacrifice, and that they were to eat and drink of His body and blood, soul and divinity, as though it were the meat of the Lamb of the Passover Sacrifice.

PS: I’ve started a new thread on this, in order not to derail this one completely.

 

[maryj]

I respectfully disagree. Jesus purposely wanted His last supper (the Mass) to be a social event. Jesus gathered His disciples together (forming a social bond – a discipleship). He could have chosen to meet His disciples individually but He didn’t. He must have wanted it to be a social gathering where each individual felt part of a group, a sense of belonging, a feeling of inclusion. What better way to achieve this than the breaking of bread and drinking of wine (a last supper/ meal/ party). This mergence of love and fellowship mirrored an integral part of His metaphorical message of sacrifice.

Let me quote the fabulous Scott Hahn,“the word Mass properly refers only to the Eucharistic liturgy of the Latin Rite.” The Mass and I mean every single mass-is Heaven on earth. " After this I looked, and lo, in heaven an open door!" (Rev 4:1) And the door opened onto…Sunday Mass in your parish church. We lift our hearts up to the Lord, we are taken up in spirit to heaven, where we" join" with the angels and saints as we proclaim His glory as we sing: We sing the song that angels and saints sing before Heaven’s throne (see rev 4:8; Is 6:2-3) Here comes the good part…The Eucharistic prayer, Now the priest relates the drama of the Last Supper, when Jesus made provisions for the renewal of His covenant sacrifice through all time. That is what the Last Supper was about…the renewal of His covenant sacrifice(let us not forget the sacrifice is not complete until we eat the Lamb of God) Now we follow the Eucharistic prayer with the our Father, the prayer that Jesus taught us (love this part) “We have renewed our baptism as children of God, whom we can call “Our father”. We are now in heaven with Him, having lifted up our hearts. We have hallowed His name by praying the Mass. By uniting our sacrifice with Jesus’ eternal sacrifice, we have seen God’s will done.“on earth as it is in heaven”. We have before us Jesus, our “daily bread” and this bread will “forgive us our trespasses,” because Holy Communion wipes away all venial sins. We have known mercy,then, and so we will show mercy, fogiving"those who trespass against us.” And through Holy Communion we will know new strength over temptations and evil. The Mass fulfills the Lord’s Prayer, perfectly, word for word. Now that’s a party!!! So I guess in one sense it is forming a social bond, but i believe the Mass is more a bond between Heaven and earth, it’s gives us a glimpse of heaven every time we go to Mass. I highly recommend the book “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn.

 

[Hesychios]

We are saved in community.

The liturgy is the work of the people. It is easy to forget that the parish is a community, so I see real value in the folks coming together to worship and recognizing each other as fellow travelors in Christ. They can be a tremendous support to each other as they each reach life-changing (and life threatening) events.

Actually any liturgical rule can serve this function. If a parish did not have daily Mass perhaps gathering for praying the Breviary would work as well. Praying together is wonderful!

Now we have this other issue about the good people who never come to Mass.

If we forget for just a moment about the church’s categorization of missing Mass as a mortal sin, we should be able to look at what participating in Mass really is all about: We are expected to worship together, and we should want to. This is participation in the heavenly liturgy with Jesus, the Angels and the Saints for the Glory of God. It is what we are meant to do!

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Christ surrounded by Angels and Saints during Mass

It is the “not wanting to” that is the real sin. We should want to. Even if we only go to escape hellfire I doubt that it would make much difference, because we would be observing the letter of the law, not the spirit (and as we know, the law itself cannot save).

It is hard to define righteous. Only God can see into our hearts and we are not permitted to judge others, so what appears to us as righteous or unrighteous makes no difference. We cannot see this with God’s eyes.

Ask these good people to join you at Mass, and leave it to the Holy Spirit.

 

[palmas85]

I hold the belief that everyone has the right to social inclusion. Daily Mass plays an important role in this because it gives elderly and lonely folk a place to gather (mass) and in doing so gives them a sense of belonging – a feeling of being part of the community. (which is a good thing – maybe that is what God intended Mass to be all about).

However, many righteous people never attend any Masses at all. Do you think that God looks any less favourable upon them? I am asking because I have met a few wonderfully kind people in my life who have not been church goers.

The sad truth is you have wonderful people who never come to Mass and total cretins that attend regularly. A Catholic that refuses to assist at Mass is placing his or her soul in extreme jeopardy and openly defying the rules of the Church. I think that just about says it all.