Electronic church bells: better than nothing?

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Frosty said:
I don’t know the technical terms for numbers of bells and so forth. The sacristan of the Cathedral who is in charge of the bells calls them a carillon, so I just go along with what he says. Does it really matter? My post was in response to the OP who doesn’t seem to think that churches in today’s world bother to use their bells anymore.
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Technically, less than 23 bells is a chime rather than a carillon, but at least you have real bells. My cathedral has only one small bell and an electronic system that is only used for the Angelus and hymn playing. Just to prove that real bells are still being installed, here are some real bells that were cast and installed in 2007 at Mount Angel Abbey in Oregon:

youtube.com/watch?v=j4JMz7I2m6Q

Each one of these bells is a blessed article. Although computer speakers are no substitute for hearing it live, to hear the difference between electronic and real bells, go to YouTube and type in “church bells” or the equivalent in another language (“glocken” will get you hundreds of church bell recordings from German-speaking countries). An electronic bell system in Germany or Switzerland would be almost inconceivable.
 
I grew up going to the Cathedral of the Sacred Heart in Richmond, VA- which is by the way a beautiful church! Our last Bishop bought electronic bells and they sound very realistic.

I understand they cost more than $100.000 though. I don’t even know what real ones would have costed!

On a side note thanks God his plans to remove our statues never came to fruition! Really it is an impressive church- especially for the South.

Still the tabernacle looks a little weird.
 
That sound file is the standard three-bell peal for most Verdin electronic systems. It is a digital recording that sounds very good on computer speakers, and if I didn’t know where the sound file came from, I could be fooled. However, on the fiberglass horn speakers that Verdin and most other manufacturers use, the sound comes out tinny. One nearby parish has a Verdin system that plays this sound file and it sounds artificial. If those bells were each an octave higher, the speakers might reproduce the sound better, but that type of speaker cannot accurately reproduce the lower frequencies that only a real bell can. The bells in that sample probably weigh from four tons for the large one down to a little less than one ton for the small bell. They might try adding some woofers, but the fact remains that it is still artificial.
 
Yeah, it’s better than nothing.

At my church, we used real bells forever - from the time the church was built in 1860-something to probably…late eighties? Then we got the Verdin system, and it really wasn’t bad. But a year or so ago, it died on us, and now we have no bells for anything. We still have the real bells in the tower, but the church is old enough and the bells huge enough that the foundation cannot withstand the vibrations of the ringing, and we don’t have the money to replace the bell system or strengthen the foundation.

Tis sad.
 
Tonight (Christmas Eve), I will be assisting at Mass with the pastor of my home town parish, which has a Schulmerich electronic carillon built in 1954. It has bronze rods to generate the tone, a tube amp, a paper roll player for playing hymns, and a small keyboard in the sacristy. Its not a real bell, but it is the best they can afford, so I’ll make it sound as good as I can. No other church in this town has a bell, so in the end, it is better to make beauty with artificial bells than remain silent on Christmas.
 
I love Church Bells the Sounds of the Maas-Rowe Electronic Carillons are the Best check out www.maasrowe.com Does anyone like the Maas-Rowe Electronic Carillons like me
 
My church uses a Verdin electronic in place of real bells since the structure apparently can’t handle a real bell anymore. It sounds better than nothing, but it doesn’t compare to the real bells that the last church I worked for had. Also, I just prefer the bells ringing instead of hymns being played on it.
 
Lepanto said:
Among many of the deficiencies that many modern Catholic church buildings have is the lack of bells. This is another one of our treasured traditions tossed aside in the name of cost, but more often in the name of cold, utilitarian, and modernistic architecture.

However, I’ve been to a few newer parishes that had electronic bells installed. They are played through loud speakers (which are typically hidden since the churches often have no steeples), but the sound is incredibly realistic. Electronic church bells can easily be retrofitted into existing structures, and they are relatively affordable.

Here is one such vendor (give a listen to their recordings):
verdin.com/info/churches.asp

What do you think: are electronic church bells better than nothing? Or are you repulsed by the whole idea because they are fake?
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You’ve blamed everything except the secular world and secular government. Many neighborhoods would have bylaws that would prohibit churches from ringing their bells. One reason why many new parishes don’t have them anyway. My local RC parish rings the bells for Saturday Mass because its in the late afternoon, but not on Sunday mornings when such “noises” are prohibited by bylaws until 11am.
 
Some Lutheran people that I was acquainted with briefly complained – to me of course – about the nearby Catholic church and its bells.

It’s sad that such beautiful sounds ringing out the prayer about the Incarnation of God (or alternately the Resurrection) are so trivialized. You know? to such people, Catholics are simply wrong – and evil – about everything.
 
We have had another pastoral change. Our bells now ring:
tee_eff_em said:
I live a block from my church, and have never regretted its bells (electronic, from the Verdin company referenced in the OP). They ring at:

  • *]5 minute and 1 minute Calls to Worship
    *]Noon and 6pm Angelus -](followed by a short hymn)/-]
    *]Funerals
    *]Some (all?) weddings
    *]During the *Gloria *on Holy Thursday and Easter Vigil
    *]They chime the hour, 8am-8pm or 9am-9pm, or something like that

    I do not know if the lack of 6am Angelus is a concession to the neighborhood or a city ordinance? We used to have programs of Christmas and patriotic music (about 15 minutes’ worth) – I do not know if they have ceased due to a change in pastor or a change in the system itself (replaced a year or so ago)?

    In any case – I like 'em. 👍
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  • I still like 'em. 👍

    tee
 
Crumpy said:
Some Lutheran people that I was acquainted with briefly complained – to me of course – about the nearby Catholic church and its bells.

It’s sad that such beautiful sounds ringing out the prayer about the Incarnation of God (or alternately the Resurrection) are so trivialized. You know? to such people, Catholics are simply wrong – and evil – about everything.
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Would you tolerate a Mosque or Sikh temple with loud sounds close to where you live during morning when you would otherwise be sleeping?

Not that I’m defending them, but given that North America is mostly secular or protestant, we shouldn’t be surprised that such Catholic traditions that were born out of times when entire towns were Catholic wouldn’t be accepted so easily where we are today.
 
Lepanto said:
Among many of the deficiencies that many modern Catholic church buildings have is the lack of bells. This is another one of our treasured traditions tossed aside in the name of cost, but more often in the name of cold, utilitarian, and modernistic architecture.

However, I’ve been to a few newer parishes that had electronic bells installed. They are played through loud speakers (which are typically hidden since the churches often have no steeples), but the sound is incredibly realistic. Electronic church bells can easily be retrofitted into existing structures, and they are relatively affordable.

Here is one such vendor (give a listen to their recordings):
verdin.com/info/churches.asp

What do you think: are electronic church bells better than nothing? Or are you repulsed by the whole idea because they are fake?
Click to expand...
Some places (like Saratoga, CA) do not allow bells to be part of new building construction.
 
Crumpy said:
Some Lutheran people that I was acquainted with briefly complained – to me of course – about the nearby Catholic church and its bells.

It’s sad that such beautiful sounds ringing out the prayer about the Incarnation of God (or alternately the Resurrection) are so trivialized. You know? to such people, Catholics are simply wrong – and evil – about everything.
Click to expand...
The long-time early morning bell-ringer died at my parish several years ago. About two years after his death I learned to ring the bells from the last bell-ringer we had at the time. I started to ring them early on Sunday Mornings. The complaints were large in number and nasty. In some cases they were downright bigoted and this is in California.

My pastor immediately told me to stop. He was relocated a few months later and I immediately started to ring the bells again before his replacement arrived. I asked the office manager to forward the nasty calls to me. No one ever called me and within 90 days they had ceased. When our new pastor came aboard, he never had to deal with the problem. For a while I was truly afraid that we had lost our grandfathered right to ring 120 dB bells at 6:30AM on a Sunday morning.
 
Frosty said:
I don’t know the technical terms for numbers of bells and so forth. The sacristan of the Cathedral who is in charge of the bells calls them a carillon, so I just go along with what he says. Does it really matter? My post was in response to the OP who doesn’t seem to think that churches in today’s world bother to use their bells anymore.
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Yes it does. A carillon is a musical instrument of at least 23 bells. The sacristan should refer to the chime by its correct name.
 
TotalResolve said:
If you are willing to spend enough money on amplifiers and speakers the electronic version will meet the real thing in a sonic sense. The same is true with electronic organs versus pipe organs.

Electronic versions are a lot cheaper initially and they are far less expensive to maintain. Do most parishes even have someone who knows how to ring bells in a “Catholic” manner?

With the advent of dirt-cheap computers and wonderful digital recordings, one can build their own systems without paying the high prices demanded by Verdin and others.

It’s still neat to have the “real thing” though.
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That’s a very good point. At my parish we take a lot of pride in ringing our bells by hand. Since the 1920’s many beautiful bell installations have been automated and I think there’s a loss when that happens.

Someone came up with a fairly nice computer application for “digital bells” but it wasn’t fully finished. It was a bit flakey. But for $200.00 you could buy a copy, hook it to a free PC and with the help of a nice pre-recoded CD and some speakers/amps you were ready to go.
 
I like old metal bells, but if a parish has no other alternative (cost, enough room, no tower etc.), I guess they could make do with an electronic system. 🙂
 
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