EMHC at Funeral Mas

[babochka]

You called it strange, pointless and contrived. That is what you said.

That seems like an odd way to express mere curiosity.

-Tim-

Strange - I had never seen this done in this manner before.
Pointless - I have understood that the point of having an EMHC is to allow the distribution of Holy Communion in a manner that it does not take an unreasonable amount of time. I believe that this method actually took longer than it would have if the priest had simply distributed Communion himself. Thus, it seemed pointless.
Contrived - it seems that a role for this person had been contrived because it was not actually necessary.

All of which led to a question, which my curiosity led me to ask on this forum. So far, nobody has answered. Are there official (binding or otherwise) guidelines as to when EMHC can or should be used and what are they? My curiosity would then be satisfied.

 

[Phemie]

All of which led to a question, which my curiosity led me to ask on this forum. So far, nobody has answered. Are there official (binding or otherwise) guidelines as to when EMHC can or should be used and what are they? My curiosity would then be satisfied.

REDEMPTIONIS SACRAMENTUM – which is only reiterating 3 previous documents * Immensae caritatis, Inaestimabile donum, & Ecclesiae de mysterio*

[157.] If there is usually present a sufficient number of sacred ministers for the distribution of Holy Communion, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may not be appointed. Indeed, in such circumstances, those who may have already been appointed to this ministry should not exercise it. The practice of those Priests is reprobated who, even though present at the celebration, abstain from distributing Communion and hand this function over to laypersons.[258] [158.] Indeed, the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may administer Communion only when the Priest and Deacon are lacking, when the Priest is prevented by weakness or advanced age or some other genuine reason, or when the number of faithful coming to Communion is so great that the very celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged.[259] This, however, is to be understood in such a way that a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason.

 

[babochka]

REDEMPTIONIS SACRAMENTUM – which is only reiterating 3 previous documents * Immensae caritatis, Inaestimabile donum, & Ecclesiae de mysterio*

Thank you.

 

[superamazingman]

Father seemed a bit awkward when announcing it. I’m pretty sure this woman just told him “this is how we do it” and he didn’t want to step on toes when he was a guest in this parish. I’ve been to Mass at his parish and didn’t see anything egregious like this. He probably should have declined her offer to “help”, but she was the parish representative assigned to the funeral.

In crazy situations like this, there’s nothing wrong with stepping on a few toes charitably if it means there won’t be an extra EMHC…

 

[superamazingman]

lizaanne and babochka, you assume too much.

You assume that the priest had no valid reason for doing what he did, and that he allowed a layperson to “walk all over him.” This is an accusation of laziness and irresponsiblity and you ought not do that.

First of all, if he was a visiting priest from out of state, he had to request permission from the Bishop of the diocese to celebrate Mass. He also has to interface with the Pastor of the parish in which he celebrates Mass.

I have personally witnessed a priest from another parish walk into our parish, introduce himself to the pastor as the one who will be celebrating the Mass, and proceed to tell our Pastor how he wants to do things. Our pastor politely replied that visiting priests are expected to adhere to the way things are ordinarily done in our parish and that if he didn’t like that, he could find another venue for the event. I think it was a wedding.

The point is that a visiting priest doesn’t just waltz into a parish and start telling people what to do. He is a guest. The pastor of the parish may have instructed him on how things are done and may have even instructed the EMHC on how to do things with the visiting priest. EMHC’s are, for the most part, highly trained and obedient. They don’t generally walk into the vestry and put on albs whenever the whim hits them.

Woah. Any “highly trained” EMHC would know in an instant that an EMHC would not be needed for 30 congregants. And if they were “obedient,” they would be obedient to the higher authority, Redemptionis Sacramentum, not just the errant decisions of the pastor. Also, if they were highly trained, they would understand that they are bound to obey RS, as is the pastor, and if needed, they would go to the celebrant and politely mention that it looks like they are not needed. Also, they would not be sitting in the sanctuary, because RS specifically mentions that the EMHCs are not to enter the sanctuary until the priest receives communion.

“Highly trained and obedient”?? Not in most cases, particularly the “highly trained” part. When’s the last time you’ve heard an EMHC even mention praying for vocations so their role can be eliminated (as is required by RS)?

 

[superamazingman]

Before you came to the CAF to open a thread: DID YOU TALK TO THE PRIEST IN QUESTION AND ASK HIM ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS? DID YOU TALK TO THE WOMAN WHO SERVED AS AN EMHC?

If not, why not? Is it possible that the parish makes provision for normal size funerals where more than just a priest is needed? And maybe the minister showed up ready to help and she and the priest made the best of the situation? Did you give the two of them the benefit of the doubt?

I’ve explained my reasoning in previous comments. The priest is a family member who graciously flew in on very short notice, for approximately 24 hours, to share his presence with us at the funeral and honor the wishes of the deceased. I did not want to appear confrontational and accusatory (which is apparently how I came across to some people on this forum) and it just didn’t seem like the right time to have this conversation. I could ask the priest in question, but I have no wish to strain our good (but not close) relationship if this is simply an issue where our opinions differ. As a Byzantine Rite Catholic, I don’t have a great deal of experience with Extraordinary ministers. For the most part, I know what I read on this forum. I simply wanted to know if the church has official guidelines as to their use. This is a question to satisfy my curiosity. The minister did show up ready to help. That was her job.+ I put help in quotes previously because Father was finished distributing Communion before she even started. It did not appear to be any amount of help, as he had to wait for her to finish before continuing on. She works for the parish and was tasked with helping to plan the funeral liturgy. She also served at the altar and guided the family and the visiting priest. I proposed a possibility (which I still believe to be likely) as to how this happened. Apparently I didn’t express myself well.

And please stop shouting at me. It really isn’t necessary. I’m trying to have a civil conversation with you.

Don’t mind clem… he likes to flip out about this kinda stuff. Just ignore him, you’ll just go in circles in a pointless discussion where he dodges points and doesn’t discuss the meat of the matter. Before long, he’ll have side tracked you, and will have totally avoided the point that he doesn’t mind breaking the rubrics.

And do know that you had a right to be questioning and frustrated with this priest. Ever heard the phrase “righteous anger”?

You certainly have a "righteous frustration"and “righteous questioning” about the situation. In short, the priest should not have let her do it in the way he did. It’s that simple.

For more info on what the church teaches in this area, go to the EMHC section in this document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I am an EMHC and I pray for vocations to the priesthood and religious life everyday.

 

[superamazingman]

 

[clem456]

Don’t mind clem… he likes to flip out about this kinda stuff. Just ignore him, you’ll just go in circles in a pointless discussion where he dodges points and doesn’t discuss the meat of the matter. Before long, he’ll have side tracked you, and will have totally avoided the point that he doesn’t mind breaking the rubrics.

And do know that you had a right to be questioning and frustrated with this priest. Ever heard the phrase “righteous anger”?

You certainly have a "righteous frustration"and “righteous questioning” about the situation. In short, the priest should not have let her do it in the way he did. It’s that simple.

For more info on what the church teaches in this area, go to the EMHC section in this document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

I’ll say a prayer for you.