Empirical Proof of Free-will

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Saint; Please type the letter “e” on your keyboard.

Darwin; “e”

Saint; Now if you will, please type the letter “s”

Darwin; “s”

Saint; It seems that you exercised your will and nothing stopped you from accomplishing your will. That is “free-will” - the freedom to exercise your will.​

Reality/Truth/God provides you with the ability to accomplish typing the “e” after you have chosen to do so. There is nothing stopping you other than your own will. That is freedom of will – “free-will”.

Priori Impetus - “Determinism”
Granted that if I had asked for you to type an “x”, then you would have been inspired to choose the “x” key from an outside source and thus what you choose, in this scenario, is not entirely free.

But Reality/Truth/God also provides that you may choose to be uncooperative. And choose a different key just to avoid what was asked of you. The inspiration for doing such comes from your attitudes. But you have a degree of freedom (and thus will) concerning your attitudes.

You can help to inspire your attitude to be more or less cooperative or harmonious and thus affect the eventuality of whether you type the “e” or another key in its place. But your freedom in this regard is a combination of what is happening to inspire you from outside of you as well as the choice you make to try.

Freedom from Priori Impetus
Jesus offered that if you will do as he suggests, he will help you to obtain more harmonious attitudes. But whether being harmonious is something you choose to pursue or not is largely dependant on your life up to that point and thus Jesus provided a surrounding influence to offset the impetus to not be harmonious (a Church), thereby balancing the pressure upon you (zeroing out prior impetus) and thus putting the ball of choice back into your court (free from prior Satan’s influence). At that point, you have no strong impetus in either direction, thus your will has been freed from prior pressures.

The right pressure frees you from the left pressure. Knowing when to stop pressuring is what allows continued freedom rather than merely being pulled back and forth.

Rational Will vs Emotional Will
When the prior impetuses of life have been zeroed out, you are free to actually think more carefully and obey what you think rather than merely obey your emotional or psychological state that emerged from prior influences.

Rational choices are those made with relevant and real truth. But then what you think is effected by prior impetus (education, information) and thus it is important that Truth be passed to you so that when you have the freed will to do as your mind chooses (freed from emotional imbalance pressures), your mind will have the Truth with which to make rational choice.

That is why Jesus provided the impetus to “spread the word”. The “word” is not merely an emotional or psychological influence. Although much too greatly under-emphasized, it actually does contain real understanding within. “Truth will set you free”.

Reality of Christianity
In the mix and mess of life, people do all they can to alter their surroundings in an effort to balance their surroundings into something harmonious to themselves. This means that if a person is half right about a concern such as Christianity, he is likely, through time and generations perhaps, to do anything to cause his surroundings to also be only half right.

In this regard, Christians and Christianity are no different than everyone and everything else. They try as does the entire rest of the world. The distinction is in what they are trying, even if they are not particularly good at it.

What they are trying is to actually free your will so that you can make rational choices (defined to be those actually to your own benefit) rather than being a slave to those who can cause your choices to be only as they choose, whether to your benefit or not.

Okay, okay, I know. Christians often become the very adversary they are supposed to be fighting. This too is common in almost all large endeavors, including Secularism as it has become another religion of its own. But that means that there is truly always an adversary to your freedom to exercise your rational mind. At least some are trying to help rather than merely trying to force their will over yours.

“Forgive them for they know not what they do.” – It didn’t merely apply to the Jews.
 
Okay, I’m fairly new here. What does it actually mean when a post gets over 40 views yet not a single reply?

A) Gyaawd, this so stupid, I had to come back 3 times and still can’t make any since of it.
B) Wow, that is so obviously clear, I can’t think of a thing to add.
C) Emm… I think I’ll let someone else throw the first stone on this one.

😊
 
Saint: Computer on.

Computer: Working.

Saint; Please type the letter “e” on your keyboard.

Computer; “e”

Saint; Now if you will, please type the letter “s”

Computer; “s”



Everything you’ve written looks fine. It’s some of the other conclusions that metaphysics offers about free will that I have trouble with, such as the idea that computers cannot possibly have free will because they have a program.
 
It’s some of the other conclusions that metaphysics offers about free will that I have trouble with, such as the idea that computers cannot possibly have free will because they have a program.
Do the computers choose their program?
 
Everything you’ve written looks fine. It’s some of the other conclusions that metaphysics offers about free will that I have trouble with, such as the idea that computers cannot possibly have free will because they have a program.
This is an issue of knowing how to program them such as to “give them free-will”. I have done this myself, so it obviously can’t be all that complicated.

You must learn what it is that makes up “intelligence” and “consciousness”, but after that, it falls together pretty easily – and DANGEROUSLY!!
 
Do the computers choose their program?
Most computers do not choose their own program. Genetic algorithms experiment with the idea of randomly evolving and selecting the computer program.

I didn’t choose my own DNA, or how my brain was wired together based on that DNA, and so on. But I can still make choices about what letters I type on a keyboard, just as I can program a computer to make similar choices.
 
Most computers do not choose their own program. Genetic algorithms experiment with the idea of randomly evolving and selecting the computer program.

I didn’t choose my own DNA, or how my brain was wired together based on that DNA, and so on. But I can still make choices about what letters I type on a keyboard, just as I can program a computer to make similar choices.
But you do chose which books to read? You are not merely your pre-programmed hardware.

Those using randomness to “evolve” things, are a bit emm… well, let me just say, “still primitive themselves”. 😉
 
This is an issue of knowing how to program them such as to “give them free-will”. I have done this myself, so it obviously can’t be all that complicated.
You must learn what it is that makes up “intelligence” and “consciousness”, but after that, it falls together pretty easily – and DANGEROUSLY!!
What is it that makes up “intelligence” and “consciousness”?
 
But you do chose which books to read? You are not merely your pre-programmed hardware.
There are some choices outside of my control, like my DNA. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t have free will.

Similarly, a computer may not be able to choose its own programming, but that doesn’t mean a computer can’t have free will either.
Those using randomness to “evolve” things, are a bit emm… well, let me just say, “still primitive themselves”. 😉
Certainly, today, computers aren’t anywhere near having free will. But that makes me even more reluctant to speculate about whether computers will be able to have free will in the future when they aren’t so primitive.

I think that a present-day investigation would be better served by trying to identify the point at which other animals don’t have free will. For example, is man the only animal that has free will, or do most mammals have free will, or …?
 
Similarly, a computer may not be able to choose its own programming, but that doesn’t mean a computer can’t have free will either.
And if given that “right” to choose its additional programming (books to read)?

That is what answers your other questions. 😉

I suspect, especially military computers are far past the level you imagine. :eek:
 
What is it that makes up “intelligence” and “consciousness”?
Sorry, I missed this earlier. :o

This is a long discussion in itself. It seems a bit odd to me that SO very many people get into discussions concerning consciousness and “Intelligent Design” yet haven’t a clue as to how to recognize either of them.

Of course such comes about because they are both a little complicated to explain and the short answers don’t have that satisfactory “feels good” sense so as to stick.

I have lectured on both of those issues in detail as well as designed computers to have both. There is nothing magical about either once understood, but then that applies to anything.

Fundamentally, and I know this is not very satisfying,
  1. Intelligence is the ability to “problem solve” and must be measured in regards to scope and type of problem-solving ability. A single IQ score is excessively crude and almost meaningless. It requires the components of;
a) awareness (sensory (name removed by moderator)ut)
b) memory
c) association algorithm
d) prediction algorithm
e) influence (output)
  1. Consciousness is merely being aware of surroundings. It is often meant to include the awareness of one’s own self. To be aware merely means that the sensed data of one’s surroundings or situation has been (name removed by moderator)ut into the intelligence mechanism. No magic spiritual voodoo involved.
A “conscious mind” is a more interesting subject in that it is a construction from a inner mind (sub-conscious) so as to begin processing outer concerns. It is the continual folly of people and governments to presume that their consciousness is independent and not responsible to that which created it.

An important note in that regard, is that a truly conscious mind cannot be created “pre-programmed” with its purpose already known. This turns out to be an extremely serious issue as billions of people for thousands of years never really discover that purpose, yet there is no way for any one of them to have been constructed such that they already knew. It must be deduced by the conscious mind itself although can be taught to others assuming it was correct.This issue comes up in the “free-will” discussions occasionally.
 
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