Encountered:Irreverence

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tcheramie

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At first I thought I was encountering a liturgical abuse (and I may have) I was really upset last week when I attended mass at a neighboring parish. At first when I walked in it seemed great, large (actually packed) church, Catholic school attatched, traditional sounding music playing. BUT when the mass was proceeding and we got down to the Incarnation NOBODY so much as even bowed their head, and that left a kind of bad taste in my mouth, then just before Communion, as soon as the Priest walked down to the foot of the altar to distribute the Blessed Sacrament EVERYONE in the church sat back into their pews. (Typically we’ve always knelt while waiting for Communion, I mean, come on, that’s CHRIST on the Altar) and to top it all off I ended up standing behind a kid wearing basketball shorts and sneakers with no socks on, and all I could say was that i really didn’t feel that reverence was given it’s due at that Mass, truly sad.
 
sounds like the large parish near where I live (the priests are fine, the peopel seem not to care). I go to the church across town though, we are more orthodox but alas we are housed in a rented space in a strip mall, so it doesnt look as nice outside as the richer but unorthodox parish.
 
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tcheramie:
we got down to the Incarnation NOBODY so much as even bowed their head, and that left a kind of bad taste in my mouth
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A local practice at best. Some in my parish do so, some don’t. In other parishes, nobody does. Certainly nothing to get worked up about.
as soon as the Priest walked down to the foot of the altar to distribute the Blessed Sacrament EVERYONE in the church sat back into their pews.
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Again, a local custom.
to top it all off I ended up standing behind a kid wearing basketball shorts and sneakers with no socks on, and all I could say was that i really didn’t feel that reverence was given it’s due at that Mass, truly sad.
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To me, it looks like you went into this mass looking for things to be offended by.
 
Yes, we certainly can get too nit-picky.

It is best to go along with minor irregularities, if the Mass is basicly orthodox.
 
PS to tcheramie-- go over to COL. I’m sure you will find many to agree that these people and situations are very irreverent.
 
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Mysty101:
PS to tcheramie-- go over to COL. I’m sure you will find many to agree that these people and situations are very irreverent.
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what is COL?
 
In response to the claim that I went to mass looking for things to be upset about, that is not true, I went to mass to recieve Christ. i wouldn’t call myself exhoberantly traditional, but i like to believe myself in full union with Rome. I may be mistaken but I believe that bowing during the incarnation is not a local custom, but, rather, part of the rubrics that we are to follow. I will do some research and get back to you.
 
I can see it both ways. There is room for improvement on each side, we can be a little less judgemental, but there is alot that needs to be done. Maybe you could write to the priests and get thier take on the issue prehapps they are working to change things and just need some people in the parish behind them.
 
Concerning the bow during the incarnation:

The GIRM (n. 298) reminds us of the ancient tradition of seeing the altar as representing Christ, the Living Stone (cf. 1 Peter 2:4). Because of this association, a bow of the body is prescribed as the normal gesture made toward the altar, as if toward Christ himself. In particular, all the ministers bow toward the altar when they arrive at the sanctuary at the beginning of Mass and at the end of Mass, before leaving the sanctuary. The priest or deacon also bows during other moments during the Mass, for example, when preparing to proclaim the gospel. In addition, this “profound bow” is made by the entire assembly during the Creed at the words "by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man."

Concerning the kneeling during the Liturgy of the Eucharist:

(GIRM no. 21): a. The people stand while the presidential prayers are being said, therefore, during the prayer over the gifts. b. Thy also stand throughout the eucharistic prayer, except the consecration. The practice is for the faithful to remain kneeling from the epiclesis before the consecration until the memorial acclamation after it. c. The people may sit during the silence after communion.

-ALSO-
**In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. **The faithful kneel after the *Agnus Dei ***unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

**As far as dress during Mass, I won’t condemn anyone, however I will not be approaching the Altar of God and God himself in my gym clothes anytime soon. On a side note, I am of the opinion that many (but not all) girls (high school and college aged) come to Mass wearing clothing that scandalize people around them. I am sure you may think that people should not be looking and scandalizing themselves but I believe both the scandalizor and the scandalizee are equally of guilt. Its not a new revalation to realize that men are more visually vunerable to sin, afterall, is this not what modern advertising has proven time and again?
 
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tcheramie:
Concerning the bow during the incarnation:
Creed at the words “by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man.”
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I do agree that the GIRM instruction should be followed, but what can be done? I know the instruction was given at every Mass and also put in the bulletin, both for that bow, and also the act or reverence before receiving Holy Communion. Still very few bow. Just keep doing it. I do see that the number is increasing—perhaps people forget and the reminder of others doing it will help them to comply.
Concerning the kneeling during the Liturgy of the Eucharist:
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Again I agree, but you can’t force any member of the congregation to comply. If I were very upset, I would speak to the Pastor. If I could not resolve my differences, I would look for another Parish—These are not serious abuses, so I would not go to the Bishop.

As far as dress during Mass, I won’t condemn anyone, Again I agree, but what can you do? There is a notice which runs in our bulletin as soon as the weather gets warm, and you should (perhaps you shouldn’t 😦 ) how some dress. Perhaps it would be worse if there were no notice.
 
I think people going to communion with no socks on is one of the great abuses in the Church today that the liberals and other dissenters promote. it is really part of the slippery slope to the whole femanazi, liberal, pro-abortion movement to destroy the church.

You can look at every liberal bishop in the country (mahoney, McCarrick, etc.) Not a one of them has issued a statement on wearing socks at Mass and they do nothing to discipline priests who allow this.

The Holy Father is secretly known to be very opposed to giving communion to people not wearing socks. But the liberal, dissenting bishops (AmChurch) refuse to obey him.
 
You think that’s bad. Where to begin. Not only does no one even bow their head (few orthodox excepted), but “She” is used for the Holy Spirit by about 50% of the congregation during the rest of the creed. That, and the community are not big fans of kneeling for the consecration and there have been a few times when they have refused. I am in the den of the Modernists.
 
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katherine2:
I think people going to communion with no socks on is one of the great abuses in the Church today that the liberals and other dissenters promote. it is really part of the slippery slope to the whole femanazi, liberal, pro-abortion movement to destroy the church.

You can look at every liberal bishop in the country (mahoney, McCarrick, etc.) Not a one of them has issued a statement on wearing socks at Mass and they do nothing to discipline priests who allow this.

The Holy Father is secretly known to be very opposed to giving communion to people not wearing socks. But the liberal, dissenting bishops (AmChurch) refuse to obey him.
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Why do you have to be sarcastic?http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/mooner1.gif
 
You know what, I will just say one thing, If we lived in a country where people were hurting for clothing, they can wear whatever they want to mass. Today there was a young girl, about 17, who was wearing what basically amounted to a dressed up tube top in mass, kathy, you shouldn’t act with such sarcasm, all I am addressing concern with is respect for God in the Eucharist. And furthurmore, you just try to get into a papal mass at the Vatican with shorts and sneakers with no socks or a tube top. THEY DO HAVE A DRESS CODE FOR MEETING/CELEBRATING WITH THE POPE. So in a weird ironic way your sarcasm kind of works against you on that one.😉

On a side note, I attended my first Tridentine Mass today, then when I came home some relatives were in town and asked me to attend the local Novus Ordo mass. Now I am still a bigger fan of our most current mass but there was not one person dressed inappropriately during the Tridentine mass, and the difference in reverence juxtaposed was akin to the difference to having to be in the room with a sleeping baby then having to be in a room with a 3’rd grader with ADD. I’m just sayin… where did this reverence go?
 
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Mysty101:
PS to tcheramie-- go over to COL. I’m sure you will find many to agree that these people and situations are very irreverent.
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The things mentioned were NOT irreverant and they are certainly nothing to get worked up about. Come on, if you go to mass to inspect every single thing, then you are not going to enjoy mass. I won’t have a heart attack because the person in front of me is wearing jeans or not kneeling. You spend your whole time doing that and getting offended( for reasons i have no clue why) and you don’t actually PAY ATTENTION to the mass.
My two cents
Podo
 
You don’t need to convince me. I am just suggesting a forum where many will agree about minutia.
 
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tcheramie:
On a side note, I attended my first Tridentine Mass today, then when I came home some relatives were in town and asked me to attend the local Novus Ordo mass. Now I am still a bigger fan of our most current mass but there was not one person dressed inappropriately during the Tridentine mass, and the difference in reverence juxtaposed was akin to the difference to having to be in the room with a sleeping baby then having to be in a room with a 3’rd grader with ADD. I’m just sayin… where did this reverence go?
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You must remember that if someone makes the effort to find a special type of worship, obviously religion is very important to them.

This is similar to comparing the academics of students in a private school with a stiff entrance exam to the general public. The bottom half of the spectrum is totally eliminated.

There are many devout, well-dressed people in every Parish–the ones who are just going because they must, and really don’t care how they dress or act will not go to a Tridentine Mass.
 
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katherine2:
I think people going to communion with no socks on is one of the great abuses in the Church today that the liberals and other dissenters promote.
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Very good! Imagine how horrible it would be for us to all imitate Christ and not wear socks!!! By the way, while the fashion police are here, do stockings count as socks?
 
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