Encountering Disrespect for God in Work and Products

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I have no problem with free software as competition to corporations that dominate the software industry. In fact, I am excited about the idea. However, some of its members seem to disrespect God and the Church.

Examples:
The GNU Linux shell is called “BASH” which is an acronym for “Born Again Shell”. “Born again” refers to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So therefore its use seems very disrespectful to our faith as it seems to trivialize its meaning.

Richard Stallman shows disrespect for the Church (I posted this on another thread about Linux):
Warning: offensive to Catholics:
stallman.org/saint.html
stallman.org/saintignucius.jpg

Richard Stallman is also a supporter of abortion and does not see fornication as a sin.

Also there is a book called “The Cathedral and the Bizarre” which seems to disrespect for the Church by analogy.

Based on this, does a Catholic have a moral dilemna getting involved with/using this software? I just can’t see myself using software written by people whose values are so opposite to Catholic values. The exception is that he believes in “sharing” as part of his generally disordered philosphy. I also acknowledge that he is technically talented and willing to work hard. I am having trouble getting past these other issues. I simpy am not comfortable working with or using products of those who apparently mock God.

Thoughts?
 
It’s totally up to you. We have to use the tools of our trade - if this is the only way you can get your work done, then you don’t really have a choice - but if there are alternatives (or if you could write your own software?) then if it were me, I’d want to do that.
 
jmcrae said:
…but if there are alternatives (or if you could write your own software?) then if it were me, I’d want to do that.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I do accept at my employment that there is little choice.

I would use it as a means to write my own software for my own company. The alternative is Microsoft but the Gate’s Foundation supports/has supported abortion and contraception and Mr. Gates is a supporter of embryonic stem-cell research.
 
There’s FreeBSD - they use a devil as a symbol.
freebsd.org/

Plus they also use GNU so it’s a similar issue.

Any other free OS’ recommended?
 
Try taking a look through the Archives here. I remember a few years back in the Water Cooler someone was talking about making an OS in response to these type of issues.
 
Coder,

If I may speak as a sometime Linux user, “bash” is actually “Bourne-again shell,” which is a play on the “Bourne shell” which was written by a Mr. Bourne. I see no disrespect towards Christianity here, just some humor and a play on words that happens to use a term that Christians also use.

I will not speak for Mr. Stallman’s personal morality. It really isn’t our business. I Corinthians 5:9-10 applies here.

The book you mention, unless there are two books out there with similar-sounding titles, is “The Cathedral and the Bazaar”–meaning centrally-organized effort versus a marketplace full of independent operators. Again, there is no slam against Christianity intended here. The book is a study of two different software development paradigms.

So my basic thought, if you will permit me, is that you are finding insults where there are none.
  • Liberian
 
Liberian said:
So my basic thought, if you will permit me, is that you are finding insults where there are none.
Click to expand...
I have wondered if maybe I am overly concerned. However:

I am aware that a shell was written by Mr. Bourne. I also have a sense of humor and enjoy humor. However, God is not to be a subject of humor. The use of a term that makes a pun about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can trivialize and disrespect this true meaning.

John 3:5: “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.”

This is the same for the Church of Emacs. You see, the implication can be that “editor” and the “shell” is more important than the worship of God. In fact, truly to Richard Stallman, it is. He says he is an atheist so therefore he truly consders this software more important than the worship of God! It’s also not as if I am discussing something personal/private about him. He parades his atheism and “church of emacs” in his web site.

Some may say: “Oh, it’s just a joke - relax.” Isn’t that similar to what some might have misunderstood about taking God’s name in vain?: “Oh, I didn’t mean anything by it.” Yet, but isn’t that a main part of the point? We refer to God and holiness in a way that does not repsect or truly consider God. Isn’t a key part of what taking God’s name in vain is all about?

Plus I showed other links.
 
Liberian said:
I Corinthians 5:9-10 applies here.
Click to expand...
This can often apply but I’m not sure in this case. I think we need to consider what is meant by associate. We all go to the store, go to work, etc. In our daily passings we often don’t know the morality of those we encounter or, if we do know of immorality, we often tolerate certain things (and I agree, we are not to judge). E.g. People at work use profanity or God’s holy name in vain. At a convenient store we see things that are wrong (e.g. contraceptives, pornograpy). We weigh our involvement and options and often tolerate these things.

I see your point and I can appreciate it. However, in this case, one is often building their business on these tools and so the level of reliance/involvement seems a bit much for me. Also, I think the behavior crosses the line. Even, for example, if I went into a store and they said they were some sort of “church” (even as a “joke”) and had a poster on the wall of the owner in a robe with a large halo, maybe I’d buy my coffee etc. but that store would definitely not be my first option anymore, even though that example is a more simple association.

I also can assure you that I am not a Microsoft investor etc. trying to turn people away from alternatives. 🙂 I look forward to the day when there are equally viable alternatives in the OS market just as there are for cars etc. (Solaris is free for example). I encourage anyone to write software for a new OS whether open or professionally. However, again, I’m making the decision not to use this particular outfit’s tools and OS given that the key figure shows such little respect for the Church (so-called “joke” or not). At work, Linux is used for some things and I use it if I have to.

Thank you for the thoughts. It helped me think it through more. Maybe it’s not a black-and-white case. However, I plan to start a compiler project on Windows and then have that be used to write an OS. Perhaps I will collaborate with others in doing this.

Thank you for responding and I welcome any further discussion (with you or anyone). 🙂
 
Hey Coder,

What about Red Hat? Are they in the same boat as
GNU? I have a copy of Suse Linux 10.1 that I played
around with before my hard drive crashed, but I haven’t
reinstalled it yet (is KDE legit?).

Pax Tecum,
Rocco
 
roccoangelo said:
What about Red Hat? Are they in the same boat as GNU?
Click to expand...
Hi,

Anything that uses the Linux kernel is based on GNU tools. Red Hat, Suse, etc use the Linux kernel and are all based on GNU tools. The kernel is the core of an operating system, like an engine in a car.
 
I have corresponded with Richard Stallman (the head of the free software/GNU organization associated with Linux) on occasion over the years. We discussed recently via email the thoughts that I have expressed in this thread. I can post them if anyone is interested. You can also contact him at rms@gnu.org. He usually responds within a day.
 
I think this illustrates Richard Stallman’s attitude toward God (especially the fifth paragraph from the bottom):
oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch04.html

I am still very interested in Linux and using and developing free software and I correspond with Richard Stallman (I seek to interest him in our faith). I have told him that I respect his right to free speech and freedom of religion but that he should be considerate of the faith of others even if he does not share it.

My goal is not to find fault with or judge Richard Stallman - just to question a potential dilemna. Perhaps I should see Richard’s attitudes and the use of free software as two distinct areas. It’s just that he’s the founder and key figure in the movement and it’s difficult for me to separate the two. There also seems to be a potential connection between his attitude toward God and his attitude toward free software as a freedom from power and authority.

You see, I think he sees Microsoft as a form of power and authority but he also has a similar view of God and our Church.
 
This is from an email I received from Richard Stallman yesterday:
“Although I disagree with many aspects of Christianity, there are some ethical ideals that I share with it, including that of encouraging people to help and cooperate with one another. Many Christians have found that free software fits their ethics better than proprietary software.”

However, (about a month ago) when I raised the point of his images and statements (e.g. “saint” pictures and “church of emacs”), he responded that he mocks things he’s thinks are foolish.

I had also used gravity as an example of something that science cannot completely explain apart from God. Now on his website he mocks Christmas using gravity. Coincidence?
stallman.org/
(top of page)
 
Coder,

I haven’t followed the whole thread, but I will repeat my statement that there is a good bit more to Linux and free software than Richard Stallman. I encourage you in your efforts to interest him in Christianity–but I don’t think it is any coincidence that he is mocking Christmas using gravity after hearing about gravity from you.

I would repeat my earlier statement, though, that the open-source software is not generally anti-Christian. When the time comes that they must take a stand for or against Christianity, there is an excellent chance that most open-source developers will come down against, but that is true of humanity in general. In the meantime, “The Cathedral and the Bazaar” is about management styles and the “Church of EMACS” is about religious wars between EMACS and “vi” and has nothing to do with being anti-Christian. (I’m partial to “vi” myself.)
  • Liberian
 
Hi and thank you Liberian,

By the way, Richard Stallman informed me that his gravity statement is not new.
Liberian said:
“The Cathedral and the Bazaar” is about management styles
Click to expand...
Yes, in fact it refers to how the building (cathedral) is built and not the Church per se, nor is it particularly offensive - so I also see no big problem there.
Liberian said:
“Church of EMACS” is about religious wars between EMACS and “vi” and has nothing to do with being anti-Christian.
Click to expand...
I see your point. At the same time, I also think people should avoid the faiths of others in making their analogies.

I’m currently leaning toward switching to Linux. I’m a developer and would like to use it as a foundation for a new system that would also be more freely available and copyable.

Another option I am considering is starting a compiler project using Windows ™. The compiler could then be used later to develop an OS.

Also, I don’t care for vi because of the mode business - but if you can tolerate it - whatever floats your keys as they say. 🙂
 
As I mentioned on another thread, I’ve made the switch to Linux and it works very well.
 
I have realized that I will still probably work mainly with Windows. I have nothing against Microsoft/Windows per se and there is also business demand for it. However, it would be good for the industry to settle on an OS with a level playing field for all parties. Also, having to work with two major OSes makes a lot of work for developers. Work is good but the complexity of two OSes generally doesn’t serve a useful purpose for society or developers.
 
Coder,

Heh, heh, I have something against Microsoft/Windows, although I use Windows every day. A decade ago there were jokes about Windows being a virus (it hogged resources, crashed the system at random intervals, trashed the hard drive occasionally, was spread inadvertently along with useful programs, and so on). And I still don’t like Microsoft’s having bought pirated CP/M code for DOS or their slogan while developing DOS 3 (I think it was 3): “We’re not done until Lotus don’t run.”

If I may offer a defense of multiple operating systems, there is a very old proverb: “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket.”

Sorry to be so negative and disagree with you at every turn.
  • Liberian
 
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