Encyclical Question

[Monica4316]

Sorry for so many questions… I read the following in an Encyclical:

“I.Any Latin rite missionary, whether of the secular or religious clergy, who induces with his advice or assistance any Eastern rite faithful to transfer to the Latin rite, will be deposed and excluded from his benefice in addition to the ipso facto suspension a divinis and other punishments that he will incur as imposed in the aforesaid Constitution Demandatam. That this decree stand fixed and lasting We order a copy of it be posted openly in the churches of the Latin rite.” (Source: papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13orient.htm )

What if someone who is Eastern Catholic is thinking of becoming Latin Catholic and their priest thinks its a good idea and helps them? there can’t be another way of transferring (often you might need your priest’s letters etc) so what does this mean? is it only about missionaries, or about using force to achieve this?

I shared my story with my priest and other priests before and I was often told afterwards that it would be good for me to switch rites, which I agreed with, but the priest brought it up before I did. I wasn’t sure if it’s God’s will but I practice as a Latin Catholic and I was thinking of switching ritesin the past. As it happened, my application was not approved. But what does this encyclical mean?

 

[Monica4316]

I’m not saying anything about my priest(s)! I just don’t understand the encyclical

 

[CommonWeal]

That is a curious provision. It does seem limited, however, to missionary activity: i.e., Latin rite clergy actively engaged in missionary activity in those nations where the Eastern rite prevails. Thus the encyclical seems to be highlighting the equal dignity of the Eastern rite. But I could be totally wrong.

 

[Vico]

Sorry for so many questions… I read the following in an Encyclical:

“I.Any Latin rite missionary, whether of the secular or religious clergy, who induces with his advice or assistance any Eastern rite faithful to transfer to the Latin rite, will be deposed and excluded from his benefice in addition to the ipso facto suspension a divinis and other punishments that he will incur as imposed in the aforesaid Constitution Demandatam. That this decree stand fixed and lasting We order a copy of it be posted openly in the churches of the Latin rite.” (Source: papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13orient.htm )

What if someone who is Eastern Catholic is thinking of becoming Latin Catholic and their priest thinks its a good idea and helps them? there can’t be another way of transferring (often you might need your priest’s letters etc) so what does this mean? is it only about missionaries, or about using force to achieve this?

I shared my story with my priest and other priests before and I was often told afterwards that it would be good for me to switch rites, which I agreed with, but the priest brought it up before I did. I wasn’t sure if it’s God’s will but I practice as a Latin Catholic and I was thinking of switching ritesin the past. As it happened, my application was not approved. But what does this encyclical mean?

See this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=722638

 

[jbp]

I believe that Leo XIII addressed this to prevent the rampant degradation of the Eastern rite churches, especially in the Middle East during those times. He was careful to prevent the impression that the different rites of the Catholic Church are hierarchical, meaning one is superior to another.

In any case, the newer Apostolic Constitutions would supersede the rulings of this encyclical unless it was left untouched, which I doubt.

You can always refer to the Code of Canon Law of the Eastern Churches and the Code of Canon Law, both codes promulgated during the pontificate of John Paul II. These then would be the yardstick upon which the courts of the Church would judge your problem.

Or you can just always petition the chancery of the bishop or else get advice from a canon lawyer there. That should settle the matter.

 

[Monica4316]

See this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=722638

Thanks for the replies… Doesn’t it apply to missionaries though? Did I do the wrong thing? But I don’t have an Eastern parish and the diocese wanted the letter from my priest where I go to church which is Latin rite. When he mentioned the idea to me, I had already been thinking of it for years and it was suggestion on what could make it easier for me. I agreed it would be easier and left the decision to God’s will. The only way I could transfer at all is with the help of a Latin rite priest… I have no Eastern priest. So maybe this refers to missionaries or am I missing something?

 

[Vico]

Thanks for the replies… Doesn’t it apply to missionaries though? Did I do the wrong thing? But I don’t have an Eastern parish and the diocese wanted the letter from my priest where I go to church which is Latin rite. When he mentioned the idea to me, I had already been thinking of it for years and it was suggestion on what could make it easier for me. I agreed it would be easier and left the decision to God’s will. The only way I could transfer at all is with the help of a Latin rite priest… I have no Eastern priest. So maybe this refers to missionaries or am I missing something?

It applies to Catholic missionaries and any Catholic that could induce a transfer.

The current canon law allows for transfers with approval of the Holy See and some specific cases are already given in the canon law. The current eastern canon law contains the prohibition from Allatae Sunt*. The current canon law states that it applies to all, not only to missionaries: CCEO Canon 31
No one can presume in any way to induce the Christian faithful to transfer to another Church sui iuris.

• Encyclical of Pope Benedict XIV ON THE OBSERVANCE OF ORIENTAL RITES (Allatae Sunt) promulgated on July 26, 1755, states the reasons for prohibition of transfers:Transferring from Latin to Greek Rite Forbidden

1. When Union was effected at the Council of Florence, some Latin Catholics living in Greece thought that it was lawful for them to go over to the Greek rite. They may have been attracted by the freedom retained by the Greeks for priests to keep wives after Ordination if they were married before being ordained. But Pope Nicholas V carefully applied a timely remedy to this abuse: “It has come to Our attention that many Catholics in districts with a Greek Catholic bishop are shamelessly going over to the Greek rites under pretext of the Union. We are greatly astonished, since We do not know what inspired them to leave the practice and rites in which they were born and reared for foreign rites. Even though the rites of the oriental church are praiseworthy, it is not permitted to confuse the rites of the churches. The holy council of Florence never allowed this” (constitution in Bullarii recenter Romae editi, vol. 3, part 3, p. 64).

…
Transferring from Greek to Latin Rite 21. We have dealt with transferring from the Latin to the Greek rite. Transferrals in the opposite direction are not forbidden as strictly as the former. Still, a missionary who hopes for the return of a Greek or Oriental to the unity of the Catholic Church may not make him give up his own rite. This can cause great harm.
…
papalencyclicals.net/Ben14/b14allat.htm

 

[Monica4316]

In the canon law, would induce mean to try and force someone? Not just suggesting as a possible benefit to their spiritual life as in my case… Induce seems to imply trying to force a person, but if they wanted to switch isn’t that different? As for the original document it only mentioned missionaries… I don’t know, I can’t really understand this or what it means.

 

[Vico]

In the canon law, would induce mean to try and force someone? Not just suggesting as a possible benefit to their spiritual life as in my case… Induce seems to imply trying to force a person, but if they wanted to switch isn’t that different? As for the original document it only mentioned missionaries… I don’t know, I can’t really understand this or what it means.

Item 10 from Applying The Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches from theCongregation for the Eastern Churches:**10. The duty to protect the Eastern heritage
** Desiring that these treasures flourish and contribute ever more efficiently to the evangelization of the world, Orientalium Ecclesiarum affirms, as do successive documents, that the members of Eastern Churches have the right and the duty to preserve them, to know them, and to live them.[14] Such affirmation contains a clear condemnation of any attempt to distance the Eastern faithful from their Churches, whether in an explicit and irreversible manner, with its juridical consequences, inducing them to pass from one Church sui iuris to another,[15] or whether in a less explicit manner, favoring the acquisition of forms of thought, spirituality, and devotions that are not coherent with their own ecclesial heritage, and thus contrary to the indications so often emphasized by Roman Pontiffs and expressed, with particular force, already in the Apostolic Letter Orientalium Dignitas of Leo XIII.
The danger of losing the Eastern identity manifests itself particularly in a time like the present, characterized by great migrations from the East toward lands believed to be more hospitable, which are prevalently of Latin tradition. These host countries are enriched by the heritage of the Eastern faithful who establish themselves there, and the preservation of such heritage is to be sustained and encouraged not only by the Eastern pastors but also by the Latin ones of the immigration territories, because it wonderfully expresses the multicolored richness of the Church of Christ.

[14] Cf. Vatican Council II, Decr. on the Catholic Eastern Churches Orientalium Ecclesiarum, 6.
[15] Cf. CCEO can. 31 and 1465.

ewtn.com/library/curia/eastinst.htm#02

Reference:CCEO Canon 1465:
A person who, ascribed to any Church sui iuris, including the Latin Church, and exercising an office, a ministry or another function in the Church, has presumed to induce any member of the Christian faithful whatsoever to transfer to another Church sui iuris contrary to can. 31, is to be punished with an appropriate penalty.

 

[Monica4316]

I think it means trying to force people though? If someone already practices as a Latin, like me, and already practices mostly if not all Latin devotions, and who thought of switching rites… That is not really inducing cause I chose these things myself first. What is the way to understand these canons? I’m still confused.

 

[jbp]

Lawyers, they’re all the same.

It appears in the plain reading of these particular canons that the clergy of a particular Sui juris church (any, including the Latin) are prohibited from inducing a member of the laity or clergy from another Sui juris church to move/practice a different rite. This is meant to prevent cannibalizing one church from another. Because each church, esp. the Eastern churches are special treasures of the Catholic Church.

It does not mean hovewer that a lay person cannot petition to move to a different rite if his particular rite does not exist in a particular territory - that’s just absurd.

To illustrate, say a Chaldean Catholic goes and lives in Colombia. He obviously has to go to a Latin church. But if there was a community of Chaldeans then they have a duty to preserve the venerable ancient rites of the church from being lost.

 

[Vico]

I think it means trying to force people though? If someone already practices as a Latin, like me, and already practices mostly if not all Latin devotions, and who thought of switching rites… That is not really inducing cause I chose these things myself first. What is the way to understand these canons? I’m still confused.

First, a Catholic, enrolled in a particular sui iuris Church, has certain rights and obligations related to that particular sui iuris Church, a few of which have to do with preservation.CCEO Canon 17 – The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.

CCEO Canon 40.3
Other Christian faithful are also to foster an understanding and appreciation of their own rite, and are held to observe it everywhere unless something is excused by the law.

CCEO Canon 403

1. With due regard for the right and obligation to preserve everywhere their own rite, lay persons have the right to participate actively in the liturgical celebrations of any Church sui iuris whatsoever, according to the norms of the liturgical books.

Second, the clergy (and Church administrators) cannot explicitly or even less explicitly, influence a Catholic to abandon the ecclesial heritage of their enrolled sui iuris Church. An individual may apply to the Holy See for transfer, on their own.

 

[Monica4316]

There is no church of my rite around me and I became Catholic wanting to be Latin. My spirituality has always been more Latin, though I was placed in an Eastern church through canon law. I don’t dislike anything in the East, I just discovered Catholicism through the Latin rite. My diocesan chancery told me that Eastern Catholics are encouraged to practice Eastern spirituality but without obligation under penalty… I am not against integrating Eastern Catholic spirituality into mine, but my spirituality as a Catholic has always been Latin and when I was Orthodox I wasn’t really practicing. No one induced me, I chose it… So I understand I’m to follow Eastern canon law, I can follow the Eastern fasts (though my chancery said without obligation because I’m outside the territorial boundary) and same with feast days… I try to learn about the Eastern spirituality, icons, some prayers and liturgy. But I attend the Latin Mass daily and I’m involved in my parish, I’m in the choir, etc.

I think inducing would be if I was really Eastern I’m my outlook and someone would be trying to make me more Latin… Or trying to get me to change rites… But if myself chose to attend a Latin parish during my conversion, and wanted to try and transfer rites…

It is not possible to apply to Rome “on my own”. I asked how to apply and was told I need letter from my priest, letter from the Bishop… I don’t have an Eastern priest because there is no parish of my rite. My ONLY option was to ask my parish priest. So I don’t understand how the canons apply to that but helping someone who is already practicing as a Latin and wants to switch, doesn’t sound like inducing…? Inducing means trying to change someone’s will… I don’t know if I’m right but with your interpretation of the canons it would be impossible for anyone to transfer rites in my situation. Also since my spirituality was always Latin since I decided to become Catholic, I understand trying to also learn about my Eastern heritage and feast days etc, which I am, - but would the Church tell me to abandon my spirituality and only allow Eastern devotions etc for me?

Canon law also says Catholics are free to attend Mass at any Catholic church… I don’t even have a parish of my rite around me though. So this would mean being exclusively Eastern in a Latin parish, which I don’t understand how to do. Or it would mean going to another rite that is Eastern but I’ve found they are really national and its like being an immigrant - language is different, can’t relate easily to people, don’t know anyone, and on top of that having a different spirituality to begin with. Granted I liked the liturgies a lot - but I’m talking about really being part of a parish and going there all the time. I don’t know what Rome would say about my situation… But I did ask the chancery… I want to be obedient to the Church but in speaking to people I didn’t get the sense that I’m supposed to force myself be a member of another Byzantine rite cause mine doesn’t exist here. Also the only reason I became Eastern is because of being baptized Orthodox, which I accept and I understand why, but I wasn’t a practicing Orthodox and as a Catholic I always went to Latin churches. No one induced me to it. So I’m trying to learn more about the East but am I supposed just ignore everything that happened in my life as a Catholic? Especially as there is no parish of my rite… I want to be obedient but I was never told to reject anything Latin. We are all Catholic…

 

[Monica4316]

I think canon law: allows Catholics to go to any Mass, encourages everyone to follow the praxis of their own church sui iuris, and to keep their traditions without being forced to follow something else.

I’m trying to learn about Eastern Catholicism and follow the fasts etc though more voluntarily since my diocese said I’m not bound to them - being outside territory of my church.

However, what isn’t getting addressed is the fact that I never had a really Eastern spirituality, I wasn’t a practicing Orthodox and as a Catholic I always had a Latin spirituality. To add to that there’s no parish of my rite. I wanted to be Latin rite when I converted, I guess God had other plans which I accept, but from reading this thread I get the impression I’m supposed to just ignore everything Latin. What is the Church’s position? I can’t practice fully as a Russian Catholic anyway unless I move to Russia or some place with a parish. I am more comfortable at my Latin parish than an ethnic Eastern parish - nothing wrong with that, its just not my ethnicity and i don’t understand the language. I’d have to go to an ethnic parish if it was enforced that I must choose an Eastern parish, but is that the Church position? The chancery seemed ok with my situation and Eastern priests encouraged me to attend Eastern liturgy but I wasn’t told I’m sinning by attending somewhere else - its still Catholic…

The spirituality that I am most drawn to is that of the Latin Mass 1962 missal… Its been like this since very early on

 

[Monica4316]

I apologize for the bad grammar / any typos, I am typing on my phone in a hurry…

 

[Vico]

I apologize for the bad grammar / any typos, I am typing on my phone in a hurry…

To induce also means to persuade, and that meaning is consistent with the statements of the bishops, and persuade is not against one’s will, but rather through reasoning or argument. Enrollment in a ritual chrch sui iuris begins with Christian baptism. The tradition is continued through the eastern Catholic father’s line, or from an originating eastern Catholic mother or guardian, or on conversion, from the same tradition of baptism, and even with marriage a change is not required.

I believe the letter from the priest used in a transfer is to say you have been active in the parish for a period of time.

For what you mentioned in some of your posts, the CCEO has this canon on practices:Canon 883

1. The Christian faithful who are outside the territorial boundaries of their own Church sui iuris can adopt fully for themselves the feast days and days of penance which are in force where they are staying.
2. In families in which the parents are enrolled in different Churches sui iuris, it is permitted to observe the norms of one or the other Church, in regard to feast days and days of penance.
   Here are reasons that I that are used for a change of ritual church (based upon and canon law book* a doctoral thesis):

Transfer Ritual Church

Sufficient reasons:

• Unification of Church sui iuris in a family (mother, father).
• Return to the Church sui iuris of one’s ancestors.
• Spouse who wishes to transfer for peace and unity in the home.
• Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.
• Domicile and or activity among those who are almost all of another Church sui iuris.
• Entry into religious life under different Church sui iuris.
• Incardination to serve different Church sui iuris.

Insufficient reasons:

• Education, attending school or church or sacraments, in another Church, or ignorance of own Church sui iuris with good knowledge of other Church sui iuris.
• Good for the soul (because all churches are good for the soul).
• Defects in a Church (because all churches are have defects).
• Peace of mind or conscience cannot be judged.

Follow own Church sui iuris rules concerning:

• Holy days and penitential seasons*.
• Fasting and abstinance*.
• Proscriptions for baptism, confirmation, first confession, first communion, marriage, holy orders, annointing.
• May receive Holy Confession and Holy Eucharist in any Church sui iuris.
• Contribute to the support of universal Church and Church sui iuris.
• Foster and preserve the Church sui iuris.

• exceptions for families of inter-ritual Catholics and outside territory.
• Inter-Ecclesial Relations Between Eastern and Latin Catholics, by Dimitri Salachas & Krzysztof Nitkiewicz, and George Dmitry Gallaro, 2009 CLSA

 

[jbp]

I apologize for the bad grammar / any typos, I am typing on my phone in a hurry…

Hi monica,

Well the circumstances are rather clear. There doesn’t seem to be any hindrance for you to attend the Latin Church. Problem solved. Besides, any Catholic church is sufficient for the faithful to attend as long as there are no ill intentions that malign the dignity of the other rites or churches of the Catholic Church. If for example, the Assyrians are allowed to receive the sacraments in the Catholic Church if no Church of the East are available and vice-versa there’s no reason why you can’t practice in the Latin rite since you are Catholic in the first place.

I think the people here are making mountains out of molehills sometimes. The salvation of souls is the duty of the Catholic Church. Like what Jesus said, “Come to me all of you who are tired from carrying heavy loads, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” The Jews and the Pharisees are so burdened by the unnecessary rules and rituals put upon them that the rules overwhelmed their lives that they overlook the more important thing of truly practicing loving God and neighbor.

The Catholic Faith is simple. The saints are testimony to that. Your mind should be at peace regarding the matter.

 

[Monica4316]

Vico, I was told about the exception for being outside ones territory, yes… As for persuading or inducing someone to change rites- what if they were already seriously thinking of it and what if the reasoning was based on them practicing as a Latin and finding the situation very confusing or difficult? And I was already thinking of it… I’m not really sure what you are trying to say. I was thinking of transfering rites for a while and because it was such a difficult issue for me, my priest suggested I talk to the diocese about transferring. He didn’t give me the idea to transfer and I already wanted to I just wasn’t sure what God’s will is until I applied. Also my priest is not a missionary. I’m asking because you seem very firm on the matter but taking it like that could lead to a person thinking that their priest is automatically suspended of faculties or something, and I’m not the Bishop and I don’t want to start thinking that… Especially about my confessor who I receive the Sacraments from. I believe the Sacraments are valid and i dont want to think anything against my confessor or judge him, though i respect the canons. So i dont know what they mean. I will not start thinking of my priest as suspended or excommunicated or something. I’m sorry but this thread has just made me really anxious and I feel confused about the situation. Can someone comment on my actual situation not just the canons, since I don’t know how to interpret them?

I appreciate that people are responding to my question but can someone explain how they relate to my situation please? I am not a canon lawyer and I don’t know how to interpret things. And again I don’t want to start thinking anything against my priest. I actually asked the question as a way to help me get information so I don’t start analyzing the situation and judging my priest, which I don’t want to do. I was looking for a solution to that… Sorry if I sound impatient but I just hope this can be resolved somehow so I don’t fall into this type of thinking.

 

[Vico]

…

I am sorry it is so upsetting for you. You wrote

“I actually asked the question as a way to help me get information so I don’t start analyzing the situation and judging my priest, which I don’t want to do.” and

“I was thinking of transferring rites for a while and because it was such a difficult issue for me, my priest suggested I talk to the diocese about transferring.”

He can advise you to to talk to the diocese about this issue since*** it is a right of the faithful to petition for transfer.*** I doubt if there is any intentional violation of the canon laws, and I am not sure if his bishop would even be aware if there was. They put those canons in place to safeguard the various traditions, for the good of the faithful, and for the good of all the churches.

 

[Monica4316]

I’m sorry I hope it didn’t sound like I’m blaming you. Its not anyone’s fault I’m confused, this happens a lot to me.

My priest never said I must be Latin… He said to investigate if the diocese would consider this idea because I was going through a lot of suffering with it before. He said its up to them but to go and ask cause it could help me and simplify my life. I told him I was already thinking of transferring and that I agree. He didn’t really change my mind. The only thing I wasn’t sure is if God wants me to be Latin, I left that up to Him, but I wanted to be Latin since my conversion. When the Bishop said Rome is not likely to accept my application, I accepted that as God’s will and my priest continued to guide me as an Eastern Catholic.

Also doesn’t the quote in the beginning refer to missionaries specifically ? I don’t mean the canon on a ‘just penalty’ which is something imposed but about the ipsi facto suspension a divinis.

I’m just trying to understand… I get if a missionary comes to some Eastern people and tells them they must be Latin, that is not allowed. But I was already thinking of this and I wanted the priest to let me know if its a good or bad idea. Its a scary thing to think that mentioning this topic to someone could have such consequences, which I don’t want to assume… I think what if depends on some factors? I’m not a canon lawyer…