end of marriage

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Perhaps the problem is with the translation of the word “hate” as it was used in the original text and the meaning the term has come to take now.

Remember how we are to “hate” our own lives, as the Bible says? Well, that word maybe was translated to “separate ourselves and detach ourselves” from it. When we “hate” something, we detach ourselves from it.

God is all goodness, truth and beauty.

Anything that lacks goodness, truth or beauty lacks God.

Evil is the absence of good.

Evil is the absence of God.

Insofar as our actions lack goodness, truth and beauty they are evil to a greater or lesser extent.

Those actions are sins.

A sinful act is a Godless act.

God is no part of evil. He is repelled by evil. It is so far beneath Him and beyond Him that an evil act drives Him away. He is separated far from it.

So in that sense, God can “hate” sin.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
Perhaps the problem is with the translation of the word “hate” as it was used in the original text and the meaning the term has come to take now.

Remember how we are to “hate” our own lives, as the Bible says? Well, that word maybe was translated to “separate ourselves and detach ourselves” from it. When we “hate” something, we detach ourselves from it.

God is all goodness, truth and beauty.

Anything that lacks goodness, truth or beauty lacks God.

Evil is the absence of good.

Evil is the absence of God.

Insofar as our actions lack goodness, truth and beauty they are evil to a greater or lesser extent.

Those actions are sins.

A sinful act is a Godless act.

God is no part of evil. He is repelled by evil. It is so far beneath Him and beyond Him that an evil act drives Him away. He is separated far from it.

So in that sense, God can “hate” sin.
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👍 Exactly. I was actually going to come back and say something very similar to what you said in this post and your previous one, that God doesn’t “hate” in the way we do because he doesn’t emote. We ascribe Him human characteristics because in our finite understanding of an infinite being this is all we know.
 
limerick said:
I did not suggest that God hates human beings. But if he hates actions and sin because they are contrary to everything He is, then He is indeed capable of hating. This elementary attributing of human character defects to God is very unsettling and I want no part of it. I don’t expect God to approve of my actions or Hitler’s actions (why does Hitler always come into this conversation when just garden-variety sinners are perfectly apropos?). He need not hate the actions when He has the last word at judgment.

This seems so sophomoric, assigning “hate” and other human emotions and responses to the ultimate Being. If it seems I am nitpicking for attempting to grasp a little clarity on the subject, then so be it. It’s better than settling for veneer.

Limerick
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This guy is probably a troll looking for a fight to throw a thread completely off topic.
 
**A being capable of, and willing to exhibit, hate is not one of “infinite goodness”.

I have read what Liberanosamalo and savienu have written to try to bring clarity to this issue and I agree on two points: God does not emote, and we attribute human characteristics to Him because we don’t know anything outside of those boundaries.

This illustrates why it is critical that we say what we mean and mean what we say when posting here. This aside took several posts, one “nitpicking” little insult, and a failure to back up claims of God’s hate-filled exclamations that allegedly appear in the Bible to come to the conclusion that, well, we just don’t know if God hates or not.

As a non-practicing Catholic, I am fascinated by the patterns of responses and rescues on CAF when practicing Catholics are uncertain of their Truth. There are countless interpretations** of doctrine and dogma here, all claiming to be genuine, all insisting to be the real deal when, because we are human, because we are vulnerable to interpretations based on our own experiences and not necessarily on Truth, we get tangled in a web of “he said, she said”, “no, the Council of Trent said”, “no, the magisterium says”. Then no one is satisfied and everyone is left questioning the accuracy of their beliefs, even if just in the smallest, darkest, most remote corner of their souls.

Liberanosamalo, I disagree with some of your premises, but only perhaps because they are so encapsulated and you did not address them in any detail. For instance, “Anything that lacks goodness, truth or beauty lacks God.” An individual who sins may not be under the guidance of God at that moment, but this does not mean he is completely devoid of God before, during or after the sin. Disease, decay, mutation of bacteria to more deadly strains - these are not beautiful but they are within the scope of God’s design for us on this earth. Men and women who are struggling with their faith and questioning so many versions of the “Truth” are being called by God to do so. They cannot “lack God” as they seek Him. So things are not as simple as you would have us believe.

All this, of course, in the absence of an update from the original poster, who may be busy filling out legal paperwork or packing; so please, posters, don’t get all over me for straying off-topic.

Let the tap dancing begin!

Limerick
 
limerick said:
**A being capable of, and willing to exhibit, hate is not one of “infinite goodness”.

I have read what Liberanosamalo and savienu have written to try to bring clarity to this issue and I agree on two points: God does not emote, and we attribute human characteristics to Him because we don’t know anything outside of those boundaries.

This illustrates why it is critical that we say what we mean and mean what we say when posting here. This aside took several posts, one “nitpicking” little insult, and a failure to back up claims of God’s hate-filled exclamations that allegedly appear in the Bible to come to the conclusion that, well, we just don’t know if God hates or not.

As a non-practicing Catholic, I am fascinated by the patterns of responses and rescues on CAF when practicing Catholics are uncertain of their Truth. There are countless interpretations** of doctrine and dogma here, all claiming to be genuine, all insisting to be the real deal when, because we are human, because we are vulnerable to interpretations based on our own experiences and not necessarily on Truth, we get tangled in a web of “he said, she said”, “no, the Council of Trent said”, “no, the magisterium says”. Then no one is satisfied and everyone is left questioning the accuracy of their beliefs, even if just in the smallest, darkest, most remote corner of their souls.

Liberanosamalo, I disagree with some of your premises, but only perhaps because they are so encapsulated and you did not address them in any detail. For instance, “Anything that lacks goodness, truth or beauty lacks God.” An individual who sins may not be under the guidance of God at that moment, but this does not mean he is completely devoid of God before, during or after the sin. Disease, decay, mutation of bacteria to more deadly strains - these are not beautiful but they are within the scope of God’s design for us on this earth. Men and women who are struggling with their faith and questioning so many versions of the “Truth” are being called by God to do so. They cannot “lack God” as they seek Him. So things are not as simple as you would have us believe.

All this, of course, in the absence of an update from the original poster, who may be busy filling out legal paperwork or packing; so please, posters, don’t get all over me for straying off-topic.

Let the tap dancing begin!

Limerick
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I never said we just don’t know if He hates or not. We do know he hates sin. It is you who is latching on to your own human definition of what that means. We are limited by our language. God is above us. So are we just supposed to say, “We don’t know?” No, thank you, I’ve been agnostic before. I believe what the Church teaches, and I take God at his word. If God says He hates something, then I believe Him. My comment on you nit-picking was not an attack on your character. It was an observation based on your posts, and that is still exactly what you ARE doing. And, more over, this IS off-topic for this thread. Maybe we should move this discussion to the apologetics forum where this can be fleshed out in greater detail?
 
"If God says He hates something, then I believe Him."

Where, specifically, does God say this?

Limerick
 
limerick said:
"If God says He hates something, then I believe Him."

Where, specifically, does God say this?

Limerick
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Please move this topic somewhere else. Start your own thread if you wish. This thread is not about you!
 
happymommy said:
Please move this topic somewhere else. Start your own thread if you wish. This thread is not about you!
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Thank you! I was going to write the same thing.

Pinky…just ignore those posts. Hopefully the Moderator will delete them or ask them to start another thread.

Pinky, you are doing the right thing and I wish you happiness in the future for you and your child.
 
**These responses show a failure to embrace the opportunity for enlightenment. I wonder if pinkyyy, the original poster who was discussing the end of her marriage, had been encountering the same “Shut up and go away!” mentality from her husband.
**
Is that on-topic enough for you? ****

Why would a moderator delete posts? They are a part of the construction of dialogue here. Because pinkyyy is absent, other questions and other issues have come to the fore - is it verboten to address them because you believe they have no relevance? I am in no way attempting to deflect attention to myself here - it was savienu who introduced the ideas of love and goodness and hate and God’s capacity to “feel” such things, and it was Liberanosamalo who embellished upon them. * Don’t lay this at my feet. * I’m just responding, albeit in a manner which you must find disconcerting, because when faced with a direct question you dance away in the opposite direction, but not before hurling some snide remark my way. Why not just answer the questions? Or is it easier to insult?

Limerick
 
Pinkyyy, I hope you and your child are safe now. I’m praying for you both.
 
Liberanosamalo, I disagree with some of your premises, but only perhaps because they are so encapsulated and you did not address them in any detail. For instance, “Anything that lacks goodness, truth or beauty lacks God.” An individual who sins may not be under the guidance of God at that moment, but this does not mean he is completely devoid of God before, during or after the sin. Disease, decay, mutation of bacteria to more deadly strains - these are not beautiful but they are within the scope of God’s design for us on this earth. Men and women who are struggling with their faith and questioning so many versions of the “Truth” are being called by God to do so. They cannot “lack God” as they seek Him. So things are not as simple as you would have us believe.
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I’ll clarify. To the degree something lacks truth, goodness and beauty it lacks God. That is on a spectrum. Some things are more evil than others.

And that goes for marriages. To the degree God is absent in the life of one or both parties, and actions in the marriage and by the spouse/spouses lack truth, goodness and beauty, the marriage becomes an occasion of sin and evil and often one party must flee to save his/her soul and the souls of innocent children.

Christ taught us to pray to be delivered from evil. Sometimes we have to do that ourselves.

I hope Pinkyy is finding a place of peace.
 
Folks, responding to Limerick only assists him/her in dragging the thread off topic.

Pinky, I’m praying for you. I’m thinking you don’t have internet access right now. I hope that you will be able to update us soon.

God bless you,

Ruthie
 
Ruthie said:
Folks, responding to Limerick only assists him/her in dragging the thread off topic.

Pinky, I’m praying for you. I’m thinking you don’t have internet access right now. I hope that you will be able to update us soon.

God bless you,

Ruthie
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**Re-read post # 49 and get a little perspective on who shifted the course of this thread.

You’re so right, Ruthie - I really do need to learn to not** follow my gut and explore Catholicism from a different point of view. The task is fraught with frustration and non-answers.

Yes, I need to be more like everyone else. Therein lies peace and happiness.

Limerick
 
Liberanosamalo said:
I’ll clarify. To the degree something lacks truth, goodness and beauty it lacks God. That is on a spectrum. Some things are more evil than others.

And that goes for marriages. To the degree God is absent in the life of one or both parties, and actions in the marriage and by the spouse/spouses lack truth, goodness and beauty, the marriage becomes an occasion of sin and evil and often one party must flee to save his/her soul and the souls of innocent children.

Christ taught us to pray to be delivered from evil. Sometimes we have to do that ourselves.

I hope Pinkyy is finding a place of peace.
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**
I understand flight from evil. I served papers on my husband when our daughter was an infant, over 20 years ago. He was a drunk who couldn’t tell the truth and brought chlamydia home one too many times. I, too, hope pinkyyy finds a place a peace. From my experience I can say this peaceful place will be temporary, until she sees an opening and jumps on to yet another and another place of peace. She will be hopping rocks in the disentanglement river for some time if she follows through. Every jump should be easier with, of course, the usual setbacks. She trusts in God. She has a lot of folks praying for her. She should be all right in time.

I agree with your analogy insofar as marriage is concerned, but the spectrum you speak of - ?? - I don’t get this reference and I do not agree that this analogy applies to any and every situation. Sorry.

Limerick**
 
Evil is a continuum or a spectrum. Ranging from totally black to various shades of gray.

Some things are more evil than others. Some people more evil than others.

We are given intellect and free will to choose the good. The more we choose white rather than black, the happier we’ll be, here and in eternity.

The analogy applies to any situation where we have a choice. The more we choose things that have more truth, goodness, and beauty, rather than less, the happier we’ll be. That involves discernment, as some people seem to possess it on the surface but really are deceptive. The more you get to know them, the less you see good about them. Problem is, too many of us married someone without knowing the whole truth about them.

Knowing the truth about something is imperative. An action, a place, a person. When we know truth, we can choose it or reject it. Like you and Catholicism.

But you can’t reject something you don’t really know. That is folly. And it’s equal folly to choose a person you don’t really know.

None of these subjects are really off topic if you really look at them. All different ways of looking at the same subject. Pinkyyy had a choice to make. To rectify an earlier faulty choice. We hope this choice leads her closer to Truth, Goodness and Beauty Himself.
 
"Knowing the truth about something is imperative. An action, a place, a person. When we know truth, we can choose it or reject it. Like you and Catholicism.

But you can’t reject something you don’t really know. That is folly."

**Like me and Catholicism. I don’t really know Catholicism? I know the Catholicism that I was taught for all my formative years. I don’t presume to call myself a Catholic, so that can’t be offensive to you. You cannot be certain what I do and do not know. So how is any of it folly? You chose to be a practicing Catholic. I am still investigating, but choose not to practice Catholicism. I am not a hook line and sinker like so many of you. For better or worse, I have been given mind enough to examine and consider. A little early in the game yet to be laying a label on it, don’t you think?

Limerick**
 
**Dear Pinkyyy, you’ve not posted since the first page of this thread, and my concern is that the progress of this thread has confused you and left you behind.
The basic question here is your welfare and that of your child, and whether there is a future with your husband. According to the information you gave… you don’t actually state whether your husband is a baptised Catholic or not… but if he is, you seem to have an invalid marriage.

Are you and your child safe? Has anything improved? Is there any means or hope to improve your relationship? Is your marriage valid in God’s eyes as a Catholic married without Church santion to a nonCatholic (in which case, it isn’t valid)? Does it matter to you to have what the Church considers a valid marriage? These are the questions that matter here.

Your voice matters here. I hope you have not been driven to silence by confusion and hopelessness.
God bless you, Trishie**
 
Trishie said:
**Dear Pinkyyy, you’ve not posted since the first page of this thread, and my concern is that the progress of this thread has confused you and left you behind.
The basic question here is your welfare and that of your child, and whether there is a future with your husband. According to the information you gave… you don’t actually state whether your husband is a baptised Catholic or not… but if he is, you seem to have an invalid marriage.

Are you and your child safe? Has anything improved? Is there any means or hope to improve your relationship? Is your marriage valid in God’s eyes as a Catholic married without Church santion to a nonCatholic (in which case, it isn’t valid)? Does it matter to you to have what the Church considers a valid marriage? These are the questions that matter here.

Your voice matters here. I hope you have not been driven to silence by confusion and hopelessness.
God bless you, Trishie**
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I checked and she hasn’t even been on CA since April 23, the day she started this thread. I pray that she is okay! Maybe she has left and doesn’t have access to a computer, at least I hope that is what is going on!

Let’s all keep focused please. We have a lady who called out for help. Let’s keep her, and her child, in our prayers and let all the other topics go!

Lord God, we ask that you please watch over our friend and her child. Keep them safe, Lord and guide them on the right path. Be with her husband. Let him see his error and help him to change, for we know, through You, anything is possible! Amen!
 
limerick said:
"Knowing the truth about something is imperative. An action, a place, a person. When we know truth, we can choose it or reject it. Like you and Catholicism.

But you can’t reject something you don’t really know. That is folly."

Like me and Catholicism. I don’t really know Catholicism? I know the Catholicism that I was taught for all my formative years. I don’t presume to call myself a Catholic, so that can’t be offensive to you. You cannot be certain what I do and do not know. So how is any of it folly? You chose to be a practicing Catholic. I am still investigating, but choose not to practice Catholicism. I am not a hook line and sinker like so many of you. For better or worse, I have been given mind enough to examine and consider. A little early in the game yet to be laying a label on it, don’t you think?

Limerick
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Pinkyy,
I hope you come on soon and give us an update on what is going on here…

God hates sin.
Sin is what put Jesus to death on the Cross. Sin is the cause and root of all suffering.
When Dr. Mengele made an experiment on children infecting them with disease or putting them under pressure or into cold water, it was pure evil. God did not stop loving Mengele but He HATED his sin, his act against the innocent. If God did not hate sin, then you could really have a reason to doubt His goodness.
We believe Jesus as Lord and God as a Person.
Because God is Love He can hate sin. You, as a human being, do not see sin for what it is because you are effected by original sin.
 
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