Engaged/Marriage Encounter for non-engaged/ non-married couples?

[ComputerGeek25]

Hi all,

I have a bit of a stupid question, spurred by an announcement yesterday at church and something I read in passing here on CAF.

Is there something like this for folks thinking about getting engaged/married? Can non-engaged couples who are thinking about furthing their relationship get anything out of the Engaged Encounter program?

Part of the reason I ask is that I’ve been flipping through the Steven Wood books about finding a good husband/wife, and he suggests a lot of things and prep. and important discussions should be done before a wedding date is set (at least this is what I got out of them). This seems a bit logical to me.

 

[SpaceNeedle]

It isn’t necessary to have a “date set”, I don’t think. Many parishes will let you “ballpark it” well in advance, and you can utilize that time to go on retreats, spend some time with a “sponsor couple” from your parish, etc. There are young people in my Parish who are scheduled two years out. I think this really allows them a lot more time to really reflect on the relationship, and learn more about what is expected in marriage.

 

[Em_in_FL]

The thing is… ENGAGED doesn’t mean you’re MARRIED. Engagements can be broken. Engagement is the time when these retreats should take place. Now, you don’t need a ring in order to qualify to participate, but really why go through something so intense if you haven’t even initially made the engagement commitment?
I think the intense retreats/encounters are meant for those who are truly discerning marriage and are engaged… otherwise you’re putting the cart before the horse.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

The thing is… ENGAGED doesn’t mean you’re MARRIED. Engagements can be broken. Engagement is the time when these retreats should take place. Now, you don’t need a ring in order to qualify to participate, but really why go through something so intense if you haven’t even initially made the engagement commitment?
I think the intense retreats/encounters are meant for those who are truly discerning marriage and are engaged… otherwise you’re putting the cart before the horse.

Oh, I hear you on that one, and that’s the flip side of why one may not want to go.

However, as I stated, Stephen Wood makes a compelling case that marriage is serious business (which I think we can all agree with) and sometimes the engagement can be a bad time to discern things of this nature - i.e. you are busy picking out bridesmaid dresses instead. I guess I’m comming from this end - I think you can be seriously discerning and committed to each other and the engagement/date/ring is just a formality. Thoughts?

 

[1ke]

Engaged Encounter is specifically for couples in proximate preparation for marraige-- already engaged.

Marriage Encounter is for married couples, for enrichment of their marriage.

For those in the discernment process (often called “dating”) you can and should discuss topics of major importantance to determine whether or not to take it to the next step. You don’t need a retreat for that. Certainly exploring the topic through the natural course of getting to know someone is fine, but also you can specifically target time to discuss important issues if you start to get serious. My husband and I each put together a list of our “must have” and “deal breaker” items shortly after we began corresponding (we met through Ave Maria Singles). We decided to go through the lists together before deciding if we should meet in person. No need to waste time if there was something irreconcilable on one of our lists!

You are absolutely right that these topics should be explored before getting engaged. But, Engaged and Marriage Encounters are not the right place to have these conversations when dating. I don’t know of any dating discernment retreats.

 

[1ke]

Oh, I hear you on that one, and that’s the flip side of why one may not want to go.

However, as I stated, Stephen Wood makes a compelling case that marriage is serious business (which I think we can all agree with) and sometimes the engagement can be a bad time to discern things of this nature - i.e. you are busy picking out bridesmaid dresses instead. I guess I’m comming from this end - I think you can be seriously discerning and committed to each other and the engagement/date/ring is just a formality. Thoughts?

Personally, I think the diocesan marriage prep programs are geared to the lowest common denominator-- the ones who don’t know Church teaching, never thought you should talk about religion before marrying someone, people who have been away from the church and need to be taught what the Sacrament is.

If you are a devout, practicing Catholic who is steeped in Catholic teaching on marriage, you are making these discernments as you go along in the dating process, not after you are engaged. Before I would have ever become engaged to my now DH, I expected to discuss and agree on everything in my “important” tier of items.

Although not Catholic, I highly recommend Neil Clark Warren’s book “Date or Soul Mate” (it covers the areas of discernment and the concept of “must haves” and “deal breakers”. And, a classic Catholic book is Three To Get Married, by Archbishop Fulton Sheen.

You can do the work yourself-- to me, the marriage prep retreat was a formality. We’d covered it all on our own.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Personally, I think the diocesan marriage prep programs are geared to the lowest common denominator-- the ones who don’t know Church teaching, never thought you should talk about religion before marrying someone, people who have been away from the church and need to be taught what the Sacrament is.

If you are a devout, practicing Catholic who is steeped in Catholic teaching on marriage, you are making these discernments as you go along in the dating process, not after you are engaged. Before I would have ever become engaged to my now DH, I expected to discuss and agree on everything in my “important” tier of items.

Although not Catholic, I highly recommend Neil Clark Warren’s book “Date or Soul Mate” (it covers the areas of discernment and the concept of “must haves” and “deal breakers”. And, a classic Catholic book is Three To Get Married, by Archbishop Fulton Sheen.

You can do the work yourself-- to me, the marriage prep retreat was a formality. We’d covered it all on our own.

I so agree that the classes and retreats are geared toward the lowest common denominator… we personally found them all extremely BORING having already discussed every aspect. Actually, when we met with our FOCUS couple, they said we were the HIGHEST scoring couple they had ever had, which to us seemed a little frightening.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Personally, I think the diocesan marriage prep programs are geared to the lowest common denominator-- the ones who don’t know Church teaching, never thought you should talk about religion before marrying someone, people who have been away from the church and need to be taught what the Sacrament is.

Thanks for the heads up - I think this is the quote of my day

If you are a devout, practicing Catholic who is steeped in Catholic teaching on marriage, you are making these discernments as you go along in the dating process, not after you are engaged. Before I would have ever become engaged to my now DH, I expected to discuss and agree on everything in my “important” tier of items.

Thanks for the ideas here. We are both craddle Catholics and at least try to be devout.

Although not Catholic, I highly recommend Neil Clark Warren’s book “Date or Soul Mate” (it covers the areas of discernment and the concept of “must haves” and “deal breakers”. And, a classic Catholic book is Three To Get Married, by Archbishop Fulton Sheen.

You can do the work yourself-- to me, the marriage prep retreat was a formality. We’d covered it all on our own.

I’ll look into these two other books.

I am somewhat familiar with Neil Clark Warren’s “must haves” and “deal breakers.” He uses these on eHarmony. (Which I was on before we met)

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I so agree that the classes and retreats are geared toward the lowest common denominator… we personally found them all extremely BORING having already discussed every aspect. Actually, when we met with our FOCUS couple, they said we were the HIGHEST scoring couple they had ever had, which to us seemed a little frightening.

I have to third this. I was not only disappointed, but we left ours upset because there were some things that were waaaaaaaay watered down, and some not even correct.

Anyways, like others said, engaged encounters, and more importantly marriage preparation (we had to do prep with a Brother, who was very helpful), are for people who have already decided they believe they should marry, to make sure they are prepared to enter this bond.

In my opinion one of the most important things to do before getting married is actually learn what marriage is. Read the teachings of the Church, encyclicals etc that talk about marriage. There is a lot more to marriage than what society depicts. It is important to really understand what you are getting into. My recommendation would be to read all you can from of what the Church teaches about marriage. This will help you in the process of discerning who your future spouse should be. During our marriage prep we did a loooot of studying too, and would then ask questions if we had any. One cannot expect to receive all the info needed from someone else. I think independent study (from reliable sources, eg Church documents, etc) is probably one of the most important parts of marriage prep.

 

[1ke]

Just to clarify. I am *not *knocking marital prep in the diocese, or EE in particular. These programs serve a valuable purpose and are, unfortunately, quite necessary.

The Church has hordes of young (and not so young) people approaching and asking for marriage who do not have proper formation.

It is a shame that everyone must be hearded through this process regardless of their own preparation and individual situation. The priest, ultimately, should be the one preparing the couple and basing that preparation on the individual couple’s needs. Unfortunately, the priest shortage prevents this from occuring as it should. Hence the need for a group program and the one-size-fits-all approach.

 

[zaramarie81]

Engaged Encounter is specifically for couples in proximate preparation for marraige-- already engaged.

Marriage Encounter is for married couples, for enrichment of their marriage.

For those in the discernment process (often called “dating”) you can and should discuss topics of major importantance to determine whether or not to take it to the next step. You don’t need a retreat for that. Certainly exploring the topic through the natural course of getting to know someone is fine, but also you can specifically target time to discuss important issues if you start to get serious. My husband and I each put together a list of our “must have” and “deal breaker” items shortly after we began corresponding (we met through Ave Maria Singles). We decided to go through the lists together before deciding if we should meet in person. No need to waste time if there was something irreconcilable on one of our lists!

You are absolutely right that these topics should be explored before getting engaged. But, Engaged and Marriage Encounters are not the right place to have these conversations when dating. I don’t know of any dating discernment retreats.

Actually, a lot of those who run EE in our local area have told me that EE is for dating and engaged and that it is not uncommon for dating couples to attend a weekend. I’ve never been on a weekend, but I guess I can take their word for it. Honestly, as someone who’s been dating the same guy for almost 2 years, I’ve been trying to find a program like EE or marriage mentoring that will help us make the leap to engagement because well, I’ll just say we could benefit from that guidance (nothing mortal, but just could really benefit). I’ve gotten nothing but the runaround from the people who run our diocesan marriage prep and am rather frustrated. I feel like if we were living together or something they would take us more “seriously” but because we’re devout, practicing Catholics there is little effort to help us discern. Kinda frustrating and kinda lonely.

 

[1ke]

I’ll just say we could benefit from that guidance (nothing mortal, but just could really benefit).

That’s the role of the priest or a spiritual director. Make an appointment.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Actually, a lot of those who run EE in our local area have told me that EE is for dating and engaged and that it is not uncommon for dating couples to attend a weekend. I’ve never been on a weekend, but I guess I can take their word for it. Honestly, as someone who’s been dating the same guy for almost 2 years, I’ve been trying to find a program like EE or marriage mentoring that will help us make the leap to engagement because well, I’ll just say we could benefit from that guidance (nothing mortal, but just could really benefit). I’ve gotten nothing but the runaround from the people who run our diocesan marriage prep and am rather frustrated. I feel like if we were living together or something they would take us more “seriously” but because we’re devout, practicing Catholics there is little effort to help us discern. Kinda frustrating and kinda lonely.

I’m in the same boat, that’s why I asked the question.

The issue is there seems to be very little formal structered activity for those who are thinking-about-but-not-quite-engaged-yet couples.

 

[zaramarie81]

I’m in the same boat, that’s why I asked the question.

The issue is there seems to be very little formal structered activity for those who are thinking-about-but-not-quite-engaged-yet couples.

Ah, that makes sense! Yeah, it’s one thing to just be “carefree” and on your own the first 6 months or so… but some couples do need more formal guidance right around the time engagement/marriage becomes more of a focal point in the relationship. I hope you find what you’re looking for! I just emailed a local priest who has a passion for marriage prep… I hope he has some good advice. I can’t believe how much effort I’ve had to put into to get a little bit of help!

 

[zaramarie81]

That’s the role of the priest or a spiritual director. Make an appointment.

I’ve tried… you wouldn’t believe how many phone calls I’ve had to make. Our diocese has a special “mentoring” program, that involves both lay married couples and priests, and it’s been difficult to say the least to get any attention.

 

[zaramarie81]

I’m in the same boat, that’s why I asked the question.

The issue is there seems to be very little formal structered activity for those who are thinking-about-but-not-quite-engaged-yet couples.

Just wanted to share here that the local priest responded to me, and said that he is actually thrilled that we are seeking out formal discernment/counsel *before *engagement, and that it is his hope that more couples do this. He has been a chaplain with EE for years.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Just wanted to share here that the local priest responded to me, and said that he is actually thrilled that we are seeking out formal discernment/counsel *before *engagement, and that it is his hope that more couples do this. He has been a chaplain with EE for years.

Good too hear.
Maybe I’ll ask around, and we can get some more formal/structured discernment.