Engagement: When Dad Says no

[BioCatholic]

Ok so my youngest brother is with the 2nd marine expeditionary force in Iraq (the force that just lost about 5 guys today). so when i hear the news in my police interceptor, of course i roll over to his fiancees and his house to see if shes heard anything.

her dad is over and looks like he is about to kill someone, so i take heather aside and ask her what is wrong. she tells me that she just told her dad that my bro and her are engaged. funny, because he proposed before he left about 7 months ago.

turns out, he gave her dad the heads up about it before he shipped out, and her dad said absolutely not. any man that lives with his daughter before marriage isnt fit to marry.

now my bro isnt the one to let non-military people tell him what to do, hence he goes ahead and pops the question anyway. he was just being courteous i guess, irregardless of what was said. so they just “forget” to tell the dad. personally, i never asked any permission. why on earth would i ask someone else what to do with my own life?

the dad tells me “when you see that little ______, you tell him that i will burn in hell before he marries my daughter…” i politely told him that unless he showed up with a firearm at the wedding, most likely they were going to get married. i told him im not crazy about my bro getting married at all, period, and we just have to deal with it. he said something about telling the priest that he didnt approve of the marriage, and then they wouldnt be able to marry in the church.

i didnt buy it at first, but now im not so sure… i vaguely remember the priest i had in pre cana asking several questions about how each of our parents felt about the whole thing.

is that really possible? or do parents really not have a say in things according to the church?

this is going to be interesting, being that they are so against active military service, its not funny. their daughter marrying a marine fresh from combat, with full military matrimonial honors. a marine who signs his emails with “Roger that: It’s Killin’ Time”

 

[aurora77]

How old are they? If she’s legally of age, there’s nothing her dad can do about it. For peace in the family, I hope there is much pre-marital counseling and discussion and that her dad will come around. Getting married to spite her dad isn’t the best of reasons.

 

[Benedictus]

No, a parent can’t keep a child from marrying. Maybe the priest would like to discuss how parents feel about the relationship before the wedding, but the parents don’t need to consent.

Personally, I’m the type who would just go ahead and marry to spite them. Not that it’s a good idea, but I can see myself doing it.

Well, this is sort of why I always thought that asking the woman’s father for “permission” to marry her was ridiculous.

Of course, I wouldn’t live with her first either.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

What a twisted situation.

The dad goes nuts on your brother for shacking up before marriage but he doesn’t recognize that his daughter is doing the same thing? She is obviously not the little angel daddy thought she was.

And your brother asking permission and then ignoring it??? Why ask then? A mature adult would have had a conversation with the dad and tried his best to be the type of person fit to marry the daughter.

I can understand the dad being upset. He ses that his daughter is obviously too immature to be married (evidenced by her decisons so far) and that her fiance is not the type of guy he wants his daughter to grow old with. he must be feeling pretty helpless, so he blows up.

I think both of them need to do alot of growing up before even considering marriage. They both show absolutely no respect for the sacrament of marriage or other people.

That’s my opinion, you may not like it, but at least consider that there may be a tiny bit of truth in there somewhere.

Malia

 

[axolotl]

Is this the same girl who is too “stupid” not to realize your brother is cheating on her.

 

[SMHW]

If your brother and his fiancee are of age then there is nothing her father can (legally) do to prevent the wedding. (The Church has slightly different age requirements than the state.)

,HOWEVER…

If he goes to the priest and raises some serious objections the priest may decide that this particular couple requires some additional preparation and/or counselling before he is willing to marry them. That only makes sense because in addition to whatever problems the couple themselves may have anyways, they are going to have some major difficulties in the future dealing with parents/inlaws.

 

[puzzleannie]

BioCatholic:

turns out, he gave her dad the heads up about it before he shipped out, and her dad said absolutely not. any man that lives with his daughter before marriage isnt fit to marry.
"

sounds like the father is defending his daughter’s chastity, and my husband would have said the same thing to anyone who tried this with our daughter. Hope he also gives corresponding education and correction to his daughter on her habits. Before he would be allowed to address our daughter they would both have to give evidence of embracing Catholic teaching on marriage and ability to live in chastity before marriage, in order that they may do so after marriage. if they cannot do this, neither of them is exibiting the maturity, discipline and strength necessary for successfully meeting the challenges of married life.

 

[st_ignatius110]

sounds like the father is defending his daughter’s chastity, and my husband would have said the same thing to anyone who tried this with our daughter. Hope he also gives corresponding education and correction to his daughter on her habits. Before he would be allowed to address our daughter they would both have to give evidence of embracing Catholic teaching on marriage and ability to live in chastity before marriage, in order that they may do so after marriage. if they cannot do this, neither of them is exibiting the maturity, discipline and strength necessary for successfully meeting the challenges of married life.

Here is the problem. A father cannot make his daughter marry or not marry. Of course we want our daughters to live chastly, of course we want them to marry the perfect man. But, we, as parents, cannot force our children to do anything once they are of age.
My father tried to make me break off my engagement when he realized we were going to become Catholic. He made my life a living hell. Never never never should you treat your children with disrespect and if they do what you don’t agree with( again, once they are of age) then you need to continue to love them and show them the love of God. Do not break off your relationship with your children because they marry someone you do not like.

I don’t think comments should be made like, " Before he is allowed to address our daughter." First, are you going to keep her locked up? Second, is she your property or God’s? It is so different if you have a young daughter, 16 or 17. But once your daughter is older and has moved out, you are the mom and dad, not the parents.

Now, all this said, I sincerely beleive if you raise your daughter with a proper understanding on Catholic morality and theology…things will be ok! No need for anything I just said! It is just that this topic hits so close to home. My parents did not know about my baby until she was four months old! They cut off all relations with us because we were Catholic…and they hate that. Anway.

 

[Benedictus]

st_ignatius110:

Here is the problem. A father cannot make his daughter marry or not marry. Of course we want our daughters to live chastly, of course we want them to marry the perfect man. But, we, as parents, cannot force our children to do anything once they are of age.

Exactly.

I don’t think comments should be made like, " Before he is allowed to address our daughter."

I noticed that comment too. I don’t know how old puzzleannie’s daughters may be, but I have never asked a lady’s father for permission to date her, and I would never dream of doing so. A woman is not property. I never understood asking a father for permission to marry a daughter. Should we discuss a dowry at the same time? Is this just an exchange of property?

 

[st_ignatius110]

Should we discuss a dowry at the same time? Is this just an exchange of property?

I made the exact same comment when I asked my dad if he was telling me that he has the right to tell me who to marry. His answer was yes. I had never ever been taught that in my whole life!

My husband did ask for permission to start dating me. Before my dad even knew him, my dad said no and we were to never see each other again! Impossible since we had classes in COLLEGE together. We asked permission/blessing because I/ we sincerely desired it. When the father refuses, the daughter must make a choice. Take a chance and ruining a relationship with my dad and be with this person, whom I don’t even LOVE yet!! Or perhaps miss out on the future husband. Choices choices. It is so horrible when parents place their daughters in this type of situation. The trauma it inflicts can and will take years to overcome if the daughter loves her parents, as I do mine.