Engaging in schismatic or heretical worship

[Mythicalbio]

No example ethics please, use primarily citations and Church teaching to answer. Example ethics include but aren’t limited to: “They do it at my parish” “It was done at the Catholic school I grew up in” "The Pope did it"

Does forbidding engaging in schismatic and heretical worship include:

1. Praying with these people (attending Orthodox Vespers or Pentecostal Tarrying for instance, or even praying with them at home)
2. Bible study with them
3. Attending a service but not communing, as long as one also fulfills their Catholic Sunday obligation (like going to an Anglican service after Mass and not taking communion)
4. Praying their prayers (using an Anglican Breviary, or Western Rite Orthodox Prayer book)
5. Engaging with their sacramentals and daily piety (using holy oil blessed by a Pentecostal elder, or getting chotkis made by Orthodox Nuns, Orthodox icons, etc)
6. Venerating sites of their miracles
7. All the same questions for other monotheistic faiths, including Muslims, Zoroastrians, Bahai, some Hindus, Jews, etc.

If it forbids some of these things, please explain why (without example ethics and with citations) or why not (also without example ethics and with citations). And citations = of Church teachings in various places, or things representing Church teaching (moral manuals, catechisms, etc)

If it forbids none of these things, then what does it forbid?

And obviously it is assumed the act won’t give scandal, or the idea that you are part of that faith (say going to a Baptist Bible study and everyone knows full well that you’re Catholic)

Thank you God bless

 

[Genesis315]

Here’s how the Church sums up the divine law:

Vatican II, Orientalium ecclesiarium

1. Common participation in worship (communicatio in sacris) which harms the unity of the Church or involves formal acceptance of error or the danger of aberration in the faith, of scandal and indifferentism, is forbidden by divine law.

Formal acceptance of error is a pretty bright line rule. However, whether there is a “danger” of those other things can be a case by case analysis.

In the past, our pastors were much more sensitive to the kind of danger and witness that violated this divine law–so much so that such common prayers were generally forbidden (with exceptions made here and there) on these grounds. In more recent times, for better or worse, our pastors seem to take a much, much less cautious approach (personally it often seems to me they are not even considering this divine law…). The merits of each approach can certainly be debated.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

I’d be curious as to the impetus for the question, but I also know there are several gray lines in your delineation that aren’t always clearly “schismatic,” “heretical,” or otherwise imprudent actions.

For example, just because a prayer is found in an Anglican text doesn’t automatically make it unsuitable for Catholics; it’s the content of the prayer itself that would need examined. The Our Father appears in many non-Catholic sources.

(I’d also encourage a great deal of caution in using those descriptors; schism and heresy have formal definitions and are often misused.). Furthermore, there are varying degrees of Church teaching that could be cited, and the example of “The Pope did it” in some cases is example ethics while at other times is actually a legislative act.

 

[Dovekin]

Directory…for ecumenism provides the following:

The term “sharing in spiritual activities and resources” covers such things as prayer offered in common, sharing in liturgical worship in the strict sense, as described below in n. 116, as well as common use of sacred places and of all necessary objects.

The principles which should direct this spiritual sharing are the following:

a ) In spite of the serious difficulties which prevent full ecclesial communion, it is clear that all those who by baptism are incorporated into Christ share many elements of the Christian life. There thus exists a real, even if imperfect, communion among Christians which can be expressed in many ways, including sharing in prayer and liturgical worship, as will be indicated in the paragraph which follows.

b ) According to Catholic faith, the Catholic Church has been endowed with the whole of revealed truth and all the means of salvation as a gift which cannot be lost. Nevertheless, among the elements and gifts which belong to the Catholic Church (e.g.; the written Word of God, the life of grace, faith, hope and charity etc.) many can exist outside its visible limits. The Churches and ecclesial Communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church have by no means been deprived of signi- ficance and value in the mystery of salvation, for the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation. In ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or ecclesial Community, their celebrations are able to nourish the life of grace in their members who participate in them and provide access to the communion of salvation.

c ) The sharing of spiritual activities and resources, therefore, must reflect this double fact:

1. the real communion in the life of the Spirit which already exists among Christians and is expressed in their prayer and liturgical worship;
2. the incomplete character of this communion because of differences of faith and understanding which are incompatible with an unrestricted mutual sharing of spiritual endowments.

 

[Dovekin]

The previous note gave the basic rationale, but did not include an important reservation with which the the Council for promoting Christian Unity ended that discussion:

e ) Since Eucharistic concelebration is a visible manifestation of full communion in faith, worship and community life of the Catholic Church, expressed by ministers of that Church, it is not permitted to concelebrate the Eucharist with ministers of other Churches or ecclesial Communities.

I was afraid of going over the character limits, but I also feel this needed to not be lost as the tail end of a long note. it deserves its own place in the discussion.

 

[ReaderT]

Engaging with their sacramentals and daily piety (using holy oil blessed by a Pentecostal elder)

If the Pentecostal doesn’t believe in the same god as you do (let’s say he’s a Oneness Pentecostal and believes the Father doesn’t exist substantially), why would you use any “holy” item he’s blessed?

Even if he does believe in the Trinity, he still opposes your faith (maybe actively!)

Venerating sites of their miracles

Same as above ^

All the same questions for other monotheistic faiths, including Muslims, Zoroastrians, Bahai, some Hindus, Jews, etc.

The Yazidi people are also monotheists, but they believe God entrusted the world to a giant peacock named Melek Tawus. Why would any Christian pray their prayers (#4) or venerate the sites of their miracles (#6)?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s my understanding that a lot of the Orthodox prayers and practices are generally used by Eastern Catholics as well. Obviously if the Orthodox have a prayer that says negative things against the Catholic Church or denies some Catholic doctrine, then don’t say that one, but the vast majority of their prayers and practices are likely to be shared by ECs.

 

[LilyM]

The previous note gave the basic rationale, but did not include an important reservation with which the the Council for promoting Christian Unity ended that discussion:

e ) Since Eucharistic concelebration is a visible manifestation of full communion in faith, worship and community life of the Catholic Church, expressed by ministers of that Church, it is not permitted to concelebrate the Eucharist with ministers of other Churches or ecclesial Communities.

That point (e) seems to refer to ministers (ie proests or deacons) alone. As a lay parishioner I neither am a celebrant nor concelebrate the Eucharist in that sense.

 

[otjm]

Praying with these people (attending Orthodox Vespers or Pentecostal Tarrying for instance, or even praying with them at home)

The Church does not prohibit attendance at Orthodox liturgies; it urges us to follow the rules of the Orthodox specific Church, which is usually that they do not distribute Communion to non Orthodox. However, the Church acknowledges it is a valid Eucharist. So praying with them may be permitted.

Bible study with them

That is not specifically prohibited. The caveat however is that often they will interpret the Bible section at odds with the Catholic position, which may put you in danger, particularly if you are not very well versed with what the Church teaches, and strong in your faith,

Attending a service but not communing, as long as one also fulfills their Catholic Sunday obligation (like going to an Anglican service after Mass and not taking communion)

An Anglican service does not fulfill one’s obligation. One can attend any Catholic Church (such as Ruthenian Rite Byzantine, or Maronite Rite - both of which are Eastern Rite Churches in union with Rome), or a Roman rite Mass. If one is not able to go to Mass, one could attend an Orthodox Rite, but that would not satisfy the obligation, as the obligation would not exist (because you can’t attend - meaning, most likely, you are in an area with no Catholic parish).

Praying their prayers (using an Anglican Breviary, or Western Rite Orthodox Prayer book)

Assuming there is nothing contrary to the Faith, allowed.

Engaging with their sacramentals and daily piety (using holy oil blessed by a Pentecostal elde

As a Pentacostal Elder is a non-ordained individual, there is no blessing in reality. As to praying the Jesus Prayer on a chotkis, that is no different than saying it on a rosary; or saying it without a chotkis.

Venerating sites of their miracles

I will pass on this one.

All the same questions for other monotheistic faiths, including Muslims, Zoroastrians, Bahai, some Hindus, Jews, etc.

The farther you go away from Catholicism, the more you put yourself at risk.

 

[OddBird]

That point (e) seems to refer to ministers (ie proests or deacons) alone.

Yes, exactly.

It means we Protestant (or other) ministers are not allowed to concelebrate the Eucharist with priests, nor them with us. It does not mean Catholic faithful are prohibited from attending non-Catholic services provided they do not commune, nor does it mean that ecumenical worship services are prohibited provided there is no Eucharist.

 

[Dovekin]

That point (e) seems to refer to ministers (ie proests or deacons) alone. As a lay parishioner I neither am a celebrant nor concelebrate the Eucharist in that sense.

Yes, you are probably right.

This is a statement of principles within a much longer document. There is discussion later of laity sharing the Eucharist of other Christians, Eastern and Western. (They are against it, though it is permissible in churches with valid orders, not permissible where orders are not recognized)

This is an important comment in the context of the first part. The Eucharist is held out as something that is different from other things like scripture or prayer. Their Scripture and our Scripture are the same so we can share Scripture. Their Eucharist and our Eucharist by their nature are a sign of the unity within our respective communities, so they are not shared in the same way.