English Hymn/ Adoro te devote music

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I’m going a little crazy here trying to remember an English hymn that we sang to the same tune as ‘Adoro te devote.’

I’m NOT looking for the English words to ‘Adoro te devote.’ I don’t know if the hymn I remember was based on ‘Adoro te devote’ or not, because I can’t remember the words to the English hymn I learned in the '60s or '70s (childhood).

I think it had the phrase, ‘come to us we pray’. And it might have said something about the ‘Last Supper.’ Maybe something about ‘by this communion.’

ANYBODY?
 
Hmm…

I think I’m more confused than ever! There seem to be a couple of songs called ‘Humbly Lord We Adore Thee.’

'The bit about ‘Christ Redeemer King’ seems familiar (maybe from another song?) but none of the other words.

In my search I ran across this:

Humbly Lord, we worship You
Our Eternal King
You who died to give us life
Hear us as we sing (to ref.)

(Refrain) Jesus, God and Lord of all
Come to us, we pray
Thus united in Your love
May we live this day

Jesus, Lord, we offer you
every act this day.
May we live our love for You
and your will obey (to ref.)

Lord, forgive us all our faults
Others we forgive
May we strive with all our souls
Christian lives to live (to ref.)

May we love You in each soul,
and each soul in You.
One in our eternal goal
One in all we do (to refrain).

Some bits of this sound familiar, but it doesn’t really ‘click’ and I have the feeling that whatever version we used to sing, it would come flooding back as soon as I heard it.

Well, at least I’ve found some leads.

But it’s kind of crazy - like when you get a tune stuck in your head and can’t stop hearing it, except the tune is not IN my head and I can’t stop trying to remember it!

Thanks, ProVobis
 
Thanks again, ProVobis. It doesn’t ring a bell either (maybe too many bats in my belfry?). But you know what - I like that first one, so it doesn’t matter. I’ll simply ‘adopt’ that one.

The reason this matters is that I’m a non-musician (some piano, choir for 3 or 4 years in high school - too long ago to remember), but I have responsibility for the music in an English Mass in Poland. We do everything *a cappella *(until that prayed-for day when we get an organist). Previously we had a jazz piano-player whose repertoire was made up of about 90% things that cannot be sung easily by a congregation; they highlighted the musician and had complex arrangements that required ‘filling in gaps’ so to speak, by the musician. The verses were usually not regular in meter or were very complex to sing - they simply wouldn’t make any sense a cappella. Also, they were from an American song book, but surprisingly, as the only American in the congregation, I had only ever heard one or two of them. The others in our community didn’t know any of them.

He’s gone, and I’m trying to build up a repertoire of hymns that have a regular meter and are easy to pick up. They should have sound theology and since our community is international, it would be nice if people from all English-speaking cultures might have heard them at some point in their lives, if only at a high Mass or in a cathedral. We’re also going for more reverence in the Mass, a greater sense of the holy and sacred than we were able to have when ‘loud and fast and musically complicated’ were the priorities in selecting music.

Our priest loves Latin and gives me a free hand to use Latin - especially sensible when our community comprises English-speakers from various nationalities: Latin is our common linguistic heritage as Catholics. But I have to get people used to that slowly. We did the first, second and last verses of ‘Adoro te’ at adoration yesterday (one of the priest’s favorites). It was the first time for that hymn in any language.

I think that I’ll use ‘option A’ on the page you sent as one of our Communion songs. It will get people used to the tune and then ‘Adoro te’ in Latin won’t seem so unfamiliar to them. Perhaps, in time, they will actually feel brave enough to sing along with ‘Adoro te’ - once the tune is familiar.

Any time I can find an English hymn that uses the same music as a Latin hymn I’m happy: it means I can use the English for awhile and then introduce the Latin without people being completely unfamiliar with what is being sung: they can attempt the Latin because the tune is already familiar.

Next Sunday: ‘Asperges me’ in the sprinkling rite. Last year I introduced the refrains of ‘Attende Domine’ and ‘Parce Domine’ sung kind of like Taize chants (popular and well-known over here). This Lent I hope they’ll sing the refrains and hear the verses in Latin. And then maybe next year… the whole congregation doing the verses and refrains in Latin! I keep hoping!

Thanks again!
 
Pioro said:
I have responsibility for the music in an English Mass in Poland.
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One can only imagine what a tough job that would be.

I grew up with Polish music myself.
**Our priest loves Latin and gives me a free hand to use Latin **- especially sensible when our community comprises English-speakers from various nationalities: Latin is our common linguistic heritage as Catholics. But I have to get people used to that slowly. We did the first, second and last verses of ‘Adoro te’ at adoration yesterday (one of the priest’s favorites). It was the first time for that hymn in any language.
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Next Sunday: ‘Asperges me’ in the sprinkling rite. Last year I introduced the refrains of ‘Attende Domine’ and ‘Parce Domine’ sung kind of like Taize chants (popular and well-known over here). This Lent I hope they’ll sing the refrains and hear the verses in Latin. And then maybe next year… the whole congregation doing the verses and refrains in Latin! I keep hoping!
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Best thing I’ve heard all day. Keep up the good work. 👍
 
Thanks for the help and encouragement!

If I could read music it would be a LOT easier! Luckily I can catch a tune quickly and ‘follow’ music, even if I can’t tell you what note it is I’m singing. And using the Chabanel psalms every week has done wonders for my ability to ‘wing it’ if I completely blank out on the psalm setting: I’m amazed that after 6 months or so using those settings, I can kind of just make one up if necessary. Without the Internet - Chabanel, MusicaSacra (I think that’s the name), YouTube - there’s no way I could do any of this. I’ve even been teaching myself Gregorian chant thanks to YouTube and downloadable music (somehow neumes just make more sense to me than modern notes).

It’s an adventure, and I’m learning volumes. But it is a lot of work. I’ll be glad when - not if - we get a reliable organist who knows his or her stuff in English and Latin. Then we can take off.

And I can leave it to someone else and go back to learning a new Gregorian chant every week, for the pure beauty of it.

Polish, music, huh? As in liturgical music? Because if I could ever find a sensible, singable English translation of ‘Barka’ (John Paul II’s favorite song), I would be a real hero. Boy, would THEY be surprised on ‘Pope Day’ if I came out with that one!
 
Pioro said:
Any time I can find an English hymn that uses the same music as a Latin hymn I’m happy: it means I can use the English for awhile and then introduce the Latin without people being completely unfamiliar with what is being sung: they can attempt the Latin because the tune is already familiar.
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In that case, you’ll love this new Mass setting! It’s free too:

Mass of the Most Sacred Heart

It’s an entire Mass setting (Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei, Great Amen, Agnus Dei) in both English and Latin/Greek, with the melodies almost exactly the same for both. Perfect fit for someone in your situation. Free organist score and congregation books too!
 
Most hymns have a name given to the tune, and the one you are using can go by “Adoro te devote” OR “Paris Processional.” I suggest you google both of those terms and see if you come up with the set of words you’re looking for.

Good hymn books will have an index of tunes in the back, listing all the texts that can use the same tune. For example, you’re probably familiar with “Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow.” The usual tune for that is “Old Hundredth.” If you look up “Old Hundredth” in the index of tunes, you’ll find a bunch of other texts you can use with that familiar tune. You can use it in reverse, too, to find alternate tunes to familiar texts.

Just thought that might help you choose some more good music. God bless you for what you’re doing. What a great job.
 
Pioro said:
Polish, music, huh? As in liturgical music? Because if I could ever find a sensible, singable English translation of ‘Barka’ (John Paul II’s favorite song), I would be a real hero. Boy, would THEY be surprised on ‘Pope Day’ if I came out with that one!
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I think that was originally a Spanish song. Maybe I could try my step brother who’s a professional Polish-English-Spanish translator.

I couldn’t find a more coherent version. Otherwise I would try it myself.

youtube.com/watch?v=L3iU7d7XvQ8&feature=related
 
Not to criticize. (Thank you for publishing the words of the “replacement” or equivalent hymn), but the Latin is just SO much more beautiful, IMHO.

And I would kill for a fabulous Latin recording. I’ve done some searches for CD’s. All the published ones I’ve seen are by groups. I’d love a solo version, which I find so moving, such as the youtube one (solo version) by the Brazilian friars. I think the reason is that the Latin is the first person singular, which reinforces that this is a personal confession of faith and adoration, even in a liturgical context.

Such a powerful prayer! And particularly wonderful for Lent.
 
All of your replies here are so helpful and encouraging! I’m truly grateful for everything you’ve said.

ThMC - WOW! I’ve already found the ICEL settings for the new Roman Missal, but knowing there are already options - and for FREE! - that is great news! I’m the only person in our community who has been keeping track of the progress toward the New Roman Missal. Obviously, it’s not on the radar of Polish priests in Poland. So it’s up to me to provide them with the texts written down (found online), record the texts and mark them so that the priests can pronounce them smoothly and naturally, work with them to get over any places they find difficult and help them with the settings of any sung parts of the Mass - that means providing them with the musical notation and recordings long before we put the missal to use (and since we’re in Poland and it’s released in October, getting one here in time is an issue: I need materials in advance, to work with the priests in October and November, when they are back from their summer holidays).

Then there’s the congregation. I’m gearing up toward announcing and explaining the changes by doing a sort of ‘catechesis’ about the Mass in our fortnightly liturgical bulletins this calendar year. The idea is to take them step-by-step through the parts of the Mass, so they can participate more fully and understand better what we are doing. Then in October, I need to annouce the changes to the congregation and teach classes to all interested parties in the new words and music. I hope that on the 27th of November, at least a core group of our congregation (it fluctuates, with students, travellers and others coming and going) will be ready to respond and sing confidently.

I’m so happy to see that the musical settings you’ve directed me to are in Latin and in English. Our priest would be quite happy to have the ordinaries of the Mass in Latin (so would Pope Benedict, who has recommended it, especially in the context of ‘international’ communities like ours). I think my priest would think that the new translation and Advent are a perfect moment to get the congregation on board with learning the Latin. And if the music is the same or very close - PERFECT!

You’ve made me so excited by this project! Thanks so much!

Elizabeth502 - no criticism taken! I often find myself really feeling how English translations just don’t do justice to the Latin. It’s why our Easter and Pentecost sequences are always in Latin. In this part of the world - Central and Eastern Europe - there are no ‘missalettes’ or hymnals for the congregation: everyone has the Mass and hymns memorized, though hymns are usually put on a screen (Powerpoint) for the congregation to follow when there’s an organist (without an organist, the priest just starts some hymn and everyone follows from memory - my dream in our congregation!). In our English Mass, since many of our English-speakers are German or French or Italian or Korean or Indian or African or Moldavian or Polish or Chinese Catholics, we have the whole order of the Mass on slides. Some people know English and not Polish, but have never been to an English Mass. With responses on the screen, they can easily participate. So with Latin chants or hymns, they get an English translation - the best I can cobble together - but they hear the Latin because as you say, it just can’t be improved upon.

Thanks for what you pointed out about ‘Adoro te’ being in the first-person. It makes me feel less guilty for not having time to get a group together for Gregorian chant/ Latin hymns. There’s at least one other American - in the process of conversion to the Church - who would love to learn Gregorian chant with me and sing in Latin in the Mass. That would be fine, before she’s received (she’s a Protestant Christian now), but since I’m her catechist, first we need to finish our lessons, and then I’ll have time to work with her on Latin singing and I’m sure she’ll be a big support for me. In the meantime - Adoro te in Latin, just me (and probably the priest), and no guilt because it’s in the first person!

ProVobis, I thought that it wouldn’t be too hard to fit the English words of ‘Barka’ to the tune, because I’ve always had a facility for changing the words to tunes I already know. As a kid I used to make up funny songs about school-related things to amuse my classmates, usually just spontaneously, using any tune I know. But when I had a very good Polish-English translator give me the literal and figurative senses of the Polish words to ‘Barka’, I was way out of my depth. It’s so… poetic and suggestive in Polish, that I ‘feel what you mean’ but was at a loss how to put it in English and make it scan metrically as well as fit the music so the words are hitting the notes in a meaningful way. Maybe, if as you say, it was first in Spanish, that would be the key. Certainly someone who can translate among all three languages would have the best shot at a translation.

Thanks again, everyone. I need to keep away from the computer: mine has a very powerful time-sucking device that I can’t seem to disarm. But whenever I have a question and come to these forums, I get such great answers. Wonderful, knowledgable people ‘out there.’ I would spend all day reading here if I didn’t back-away-from-the-computer sometimes. Just back away.
 
Pioro said:
I often find myself really feeling how English translations just don’t do justice to the Latin.
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They don’t seem to do much justice to the Polish either. For example, there’s a popular Christmas Carol “Dzisiaj W Bethlejem”

youtube.com/watch?v=kfOR9NHBWLQ&feature=related

youtube.com/watch?v=qEBg_HcT2KI

If you listen carefully you could literally translate a couple of phrases to “Clean Lady” and “Old Joseph” that are most insulting to a Catholic in the English but accurate and very beautiful in the Polish.
 
Oh, yes, I know what you mean. A couple of Christmases ago I went in search of English translations of Polish carols, because a lot of Poles come to our Mass and in fact, all of our music was provided by Poles. It seemed a sort of ‘compromise’ to have something with a Polish tune and English words. (And also, just plain easier, since the singers were doubly challenged by learning new music and by singing in a language they weren’t especially good at.) But the English translations I found were often so bad that we could only use a few verses of some of them. As you say, what sounds sweet and perfectly normal in Polish can come across as just awful in English.

I can’t remember which one I found that had the singer feeding raisins (and nuts?) to a newborn (albeit almighty) baby. I do remember having to cut many verses from one or two of them because they were just too weird in English.

But on a positive note, we did do Rorate Caeli in Latin on Gaudete Sunday. I was awfully disappointed, though, because the sacristan turned on all the lights in the church and then left and no one knew how to turn them off again and turn them back on for Mass. So we had Rorate in full blazing light. Somehow just doesn’t feel right that way.

On the other hand, speaking of translations, I was disappointed to find that the Polish version of Rorate is different from the Latin, in terms of music (apart from the refrain). After several years of going to Rorate Masses at dawn in Advent and not knowing what they were singing (I had never heard of Rorate before coming here), I was delighted to find *Rorate Caeli * in Latin in the Adoremus Hymnal. Diligently learned it long before Advent, without really remembering how the chant sounded in Polish. Took my Latin words and music to Mass - and then couldn’t sing along. Bother.

So it all won’t go for nothing, I’ve suggested to our priest that we do Rorate every Sunday in Advent next year - and this time, tie Brother Rafal (the sacristan) to the sacristy with ropes so he’ll stay to turn off the lights and turn them on again.
 
Pioro said:
Oh, yes, I know what you mean. A couple of Christmases ago I went in search of English translations of Polish carols, because a lot of Poles come to our Mass and in fact, all of our music was provided by Poles. It seemed a sort of ‘compromise’ to have something with a Polish tune and English words. (And also, just plain easier, since the singers were doubly challenged by learning new music and by singing in a language they weren’t especially good at.) But the English translations I found were often so bad that we could only use a few verses of some of them. As you say, what sounds sweet and perfectly normal in Polish can come across as just awful in English.
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So you know, I didn’t mean to imply that it’s far easier to translate Latin to Polish than Latin to English. It isn’t. But even though there are fewer Latin cognates in Polish, there is a certain amount of nuance, word order, and flow of thought that does make that translation smoother.

In my opinion it seems easier to translate between grandmother tongues, such as Latin to any Romance language or any Germanic language (German, Swedish, etc.) to English. But in any case the law of language still holds: Lex orandi, lex credendi. Every word/phrase/sentence in every language has its own meaning for one and therefore will affect his belief system in a different way. Your best bet is to get everyone to accept the Latin hymns.
 
I’ve heard two English hymns using the music for Adoro Te. The first is Humbly, Lord, We Worship You which was already posted. The second I can’t remember the name (or the words), but I know it’s in one of my many hymnals. I just know that it exists is all. Not very helpful, I know, but I’m just saying there are certainly more than one using that tune.
 
Oh, I didn’t think you were implying anything. I would guess - if I’d ever thought about it - that Latin to Polish would be easier because both are declined languages and thus as you suggest, you can play around with word order more than in English.

But of course, you always lose - or gain -something in translation. I teach in a college where our students are training to be teachers of English, French or German: we’re constantly dealing with the gains and losses of translation.

I’m not good enough in either one to translate, though I can get the ‘feel’ of Latin (not so much Polish - depends on what I’m trying to understand) and sense that something is missing or added or just plain ‘not it’. Maybe because I teach literature, including poetry, I can feel that something just works better in the Latin than the English.

By all means: get people on board with Latin. Our priests change every couple of years (if we’re lucky; so far, two years has been the longest). While I’ve got a priest who loves Latin, I’m putting in Latin more and more. Luckily, in Poland, all the priests are trained in Latin in seminary (I think not the case in the US after Vatican II - no?). So while our first priest plain didn’t like Latin when he had to study it, I think he would have let me put some in (had we not had our jazz musician), simply because it’s the traditional language and music of the Church, and he would not forbid it. They give me a free hand, which is wonderful, but still a responsibility. I’m learning a lot.

Sometimes someone comes to us who says something along these lines: ‘I can play the guitar and sing pop-folk-contemporary church music. The people really like it.’ There’s a lot I don’t say to that kind of remark. After all, people mean well. But I think that ‘people like it’ because they’ve got used to hearing it, and that people will like the Latin and the traditional hymns, too, once they get used to hearing those. It’s easy to like what you already know, and since I started taking over the music to a large degree at the beginning of last calendar year, we are coming round to the second Lent with traditional music. A few more years - especially if I get my longed-for organist - and I think they will find that they really like the traditional English hymns, the Latin hymns and the Gregorian chant that I’ve been introducing whenever possible.

Slowly, slowly, change their taste, until one day, I hope, they come to Mass and they like the music because it helps them realize that once they enter the doors of the Church, they have left the world behind, and are in the precincts of God. It’s supposed to sound different from the stuff on the car radio.
 
Pioro said:
While I’ve got a priest who loves Latin, I’m putting in Latin more and more. Luckily, in Poland, all the priests are trained in Latin in seminary (I think not the case in the US after Vatican II - no?).
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According to the bishop’s charter those in the US seminaries are (now) required to learn Latin.

usccb.org/vocations/ProgramforPriestlyFormation.pdf

I think it’s becoming more and more apparent that in bilingual communities, Latin becomes more and more valuable. In my parish the pastor is using the Latin Mass with a bilingual sermon in English and Spanish on Holy Days, all Soul’s Day, etc. Works well to build a more cohesive parish community.
 
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