No. If the fall didn’t happen, we would have lived in a physical paradise and God would dwell among us.We are told Enoch the 7th in line of Adam’s descendants was taken up to God. Could this be an indicator of what was supposed to happen to us all if it weren’t for the fall of Adam and Eve?
God bless,
That he didn’t die. He will return, along with Elijah- who also did not die, as the two prophets coming to preach to the world before coming of the Anti-Christ. When they come again they will die.What is the Catholic position regarding Enoch?
This sounds VERY Mormon to me. Don’t the LDS teach that we had to fall in order to gain full knowledge and blessings?There has been theological speculation that our end was not, in fact, the garden. Rather, that the garden was the test for mankind, just as there must have been a test for the angels prior to their Fall/reception of the Beatific Vision. The rationale being otherwise, how could there be evil or the possibility of evil in the garden. The other reason being that since our end is adopted Divine Sonship, and this reality is by Church teaching greater even than what Adam possessed. Because this is also, by Church teaching, our end, it must have been Adam’s end too, and so in some sense the garden was never meant to be the final stop. I don’t know if this is an official position at all, but as theological speculation it seems fairly sound to me.
Who says we had to Fall? You’re reading a bit too hastily into what I wrote. Our original end, if the test in the garden was successful, wuld have been Divine Sonship. The Fall being a necessity for that was never stated.This sounds VERY Mormon to me. Don’t the LDS teach that we had to fall in order to gain full knowledge and blessings?
Read 1 Enoch and 2 Enoch, both pieces of 2nd Temple Jewish literature found in the dead sea scrolls that are also heavily drawn on by many of the New Testament writers (Jude, 1 & 2 Peter, etc). You can usually find them in weird compilation books with whacky titles like “The Lost Books of the Bible,” etc. If not email me privately and I can send you a word document attached with 1 Enoch copied and pasted. Besides a retelling of Genesis, it covers how the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 were interpreted to be fallen angels. Interestingly, the fallen angels that impregnated human women and gave them “secret knowledge” were imprisoned immediately in the pit, whereas demons were understood to specifically be the spirits of their giant offspring that were released after the death of the giant’s body. This interpretation was most popular with Jews of the second Temple period, as well as the first few centuries of Christians before being abandoned in favor of the “sethite view.”I would also be interested in any lore on Enoch.
Glennonite
Read 1 Enoch and 2 Enoch, both pieces of 2nd Temple Jewish literature found in the dead sea scrolls that are also heavily drawn on by many of the New Testament writers (Jude, 1 & 2 Peter, etc). You can usually find them in weird compilation books with whacky titles like “The Lost Books of the Bible,” etc. If not email me privately and I can send you a word document attached with 1 Enoch copied and pasted. Besides a retelling of Genesis, it covers how the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 were interpreted to be fallen angels. Interestingly, the fallen angels that impregnated human women and gave them “secret knowledge” were imprisoned immediately in the pit, whereas demons were understood to specifically be the spirits of their giant offspring that were released after the death of the giant’s body. This interpretation was most popular with Jews of the second Temple period, as well as the first few centuries of Christians before being abandoned in favor of the “sethite view.”
The giants ask Enoch to beg for mercy on their behalf, Enoch gets a tour of the underworld (which has parallels with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus), and has some rich visual imagery throughout. As apocalyptic works go, it’s a fun read.
Yes, but I thought it was the fallen angels and that God tells Enoch that these angel will wait until the end of days…God denied them.The giants ask Enoch to beg for mercy on their behalf, Enoch gets a tour of the underworld (which has parallels with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus), and has some rich visual imagery throughout. As apocalyptic works go, it’s a fun read.
You are absolutely correct and that was an error on my part. It was the Watchers that petitioned him in 1 Enoch, I mixed it up in my head with the Book of Giants from the Qumran documents (4QEnGiantsb ii, 21–iii, 11.) In that document, some of the Nephilim were actually named, and received premonatory dreams that caused them to send one of their kind to speak with Enoch as well.Yes, but I thought it was the fallen angels and that God tells Enoch that these angel will wait until the end of days…God denied them.