Ephesians 5, 21-32

[jcrichton]

Didn’t realize I had to be learned in Catholicism to post on here. Do you know all there is to now about Catholicism. I wasnt trying to put a denomination on how I interpret Father, Son, Man?

…no; such requirement does not exist!

Post away, my friend!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Although it seems that when you have a discussion with someone of the Catholic faith and you bring up scripture, all they want to do is bring up Sacred Tradition and our Magisterium and the Pope.

Should not Scripture, The Living Word of God take precedence?

It does… what Catholics believe is that the Church, even during her inception, has the Authority to interpret Scriptures (which trumps private/personal interpretation).

…the problem of both Catholics and non-Catholics alike is “interpretation.” Understanding Scriptures and Church Doctrine still lends itself to interpretation–something that can differ from Scriptures and Doctrinal Teaching (as attested to by the myriads of interpretations of Sacred Scriptures held by Protestantism and the circumvention of Catholic Doctrine which continues to take place even today).

It is this exact issue that continues to rule the exchange on this thread.

…the fact that when man, in Christ, does not lead his household/community the Body of Christ suffers is not a matter of Faith-Base views or reasoning. It is a matter of fact!

…because the Church is soft on some issues the leadership fails and error spring and multiplies… when “equality” trumps everything, reason fails; we are, both sexes, equal in the eyes of God; however, as you have pointed out, man is obligated with the task of leading the spiritual life of the home/society; where man fails the woman must take charge… but, historically, by ignoring his obligations man does not elevate woman to a higher state: equal means equal not more equal!

…only in a non-Christian construct does submission become a battle of the sexes!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I have not read any one those fellows. My conversion as you call it has nothing to do with those fellows. I sometimes wonder if the folks who respond to my posts even know Scripture or are they simply googling what the church stance is and then wanting to quote Magisterium and Sacred Tradition, and the Pope.

Why do you think people decide or consider to convert? Be it from Protestant to Catholic or Catholic to Protestant. Because they have read their bibles and the doctrine of their respective churches and with an open mind read and learn what other churches (denominations) believe and then with the help of God discern to the best of their ability to choose which one is most right.

Just because I stand strong in my beliefs does not mean I am not open to hear another side or interpretation. It just means when the other interpretation (opinion) contradicts Scripture, I will continue to disagree. I can’t imagine that the Magisterium, the Pope, or any other true follower of Jesus Christ would dare contradict Scripture with their Sacred Tradition. Traditions should never come before God Inspired Word. Although, I will concede that it can go hand in hand to complement it.

Believe me when I tell you that of all the obstacles of the Catholic Church I have had to overcome has never had anything to do with the authority of the Church or its leaders. Which brings us back to the original discussion of Submission. Submission (respect) be it for husband or Church. Submission is not hard when done in love and received in love.

…I think that part of the problem, with this thread, is similar to that of Catholic vs. Protestant understanding of the term “works.”

…as I understand your perspective “submission” is not understood as subjugation or belittling of the female; rather, “submission” is equated to obedience to the authority of the one who leads/cares for in Christ… has the Church taught differently? …I don’t think so (not versed in the writings of the Popes/Doctors); can a Pope express a Doctrinal Teaching/Interpretation of Scriptures that can be misunderstood by the laity and the clergy? It can and has happened (even in the form of Vatican I/II).

The Church will not Teach chaos so the Church will not Teach against the Sacred Scriptures–but the Church is organic and changes do happen, even during her very inception! These changes have came in the form of the natural process of growth (Doctrinal Teachings of the Faith: Sacred Scriptures; Bible) or as response to error/heresy (Definition of Faith: Holy Trinity; Divinity of Christ).

It is my belief that most perceived errors (misunderstandings) arise not from wrongful teaching but from error in understanding or interpreting the Scriptures and Traditions, by both the ones inside and outside of the Church.

I am glad of your conviction and determination to join the Church, please do not allow misunderstandings such as the one on this thread derail your efforts!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Dear Tim Landry,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

First, dear friend, I can understand why that Pauline passage is so controversial and unpopular nowadays, but it is important to remember that we are now living in the aftermath of the emergence of secular radical feminism, which has been the occasion of so much erroneous thinking as regards men and women and their distinctive roles.

St. Paul states quite plainly: “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is head of the Church, his body, and is himself its Saviour. As the Church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands” (Eph. 5: 22-24). Now, dear friend, the teaching that “the husband is the head of the wife” is as equally valid as the next part of St. Paul’s sentence, namely that “Christ is the head of the Church” (v. 23). That is a very closely knit argument and both parts must be true for the analogy to be valid and make any sense. Moreover, one cannot selectively take what one deems acceptable in Sacred Scripture, as the freethinkers today are wont to do, whilst ignoring and rationalizing those parts which displease us or do not accord with warped radical feminist views on the role of women. That, dear friend, is to embrace an ‘a la carte’ Catholicism and to allow radical feminist ideology to take precedence over Sacred Scripture and the consistent teaching of the Church throughout the ages.

Whilst it is perfectly true, dear friend, that St. Paul shows (Gal. 3: 28) that women enjoy an equal status with men as regards redemption, he also teaches that our union in the Gospel does not obliterate the natural distinction between the sexes, which was established by the priority given to man in creation (see I Tim. 2: 13). Moreover, the immutable principle of male headship does make the man the ruling spouse in marriage - an arrangement not only established by creation but also endorsed in redemption. Hence, a Catholic wife must understand that eqaulity in the sphere of grace (Gal. 3: 28; I Pet. 3: 7) does not abrogate the God-given order for marriage. Needless to say, there is a common sense limit to the obedience that a wife is expected to render to her husband. It is manifestly obvious that wives are only subject to their husbands in what pertains to their legitimate authority as husbands. In other words, everything that is not contrary to God’s law or the teaching of Holy Mother Church.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

I fully concur! :extrahappy::extrahappy::extrahappy:

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Michael_Francis]

***Thanks to all who participated in this discussion.

This thread is now closed.

Be advised that there are quite a few old threads that can be searched for similar discussions if one is still interested.***

 

[Tim_Landry]

WOW! I must admit I am both surprised and VERY FAVOURABLY impressed by the responses. I am sure I will agree with most and probably strongly disagree with a few - but all of them will make me think. I am sorry I did not react sooner but this has been a very busy week as I prepare for a week’s vacation. I will read every single word that was written and think about all you have said. Again- thanks to all of you. BOY I AM GLAD TO HAVE REDISCOVERED MY FAITH!

 

[Michael_Francis]

***Thanks to all who participated in this discussion.

This thread is now closed.

Be advised that there are quite a few old threads that can be searched for similar discussions if one is still interested.***